Open Thread – Guys' Day Out
What are a couple guys to do when the rut is over, the ladies aren’t interested any more, and the long dark days of winter are setting in? Nothing like grabbing a buddy and scarfing down some fermented crab apples at the local progressive radio station. It’s the moose equivalent of a two (or three) martini lunch.
These two handsome bulls did a pop-in at KUDO and Shannyn snapped a picture.
Harkening back to the opening post in this thread, here’s a clever video from xtranormal: “TSA Enhanced Screening Procedures Explained” [from litbrit’s site]. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXDLQPfqc04&feature=player_embedded [[WARNING: language might be offensive to some – the sitting part of the anatomy, for example, is always refered to as a three-letter word…a word beginning with the letter “a” and ending with a double “s”.]]
If the ‘enhanced screening procedures’ weren’t so darned horribly invasive in application, they’d be downright hysterical in their absurdity! beth.
If you’re prepared to have your heart break a little (or a lot), please read these personal stories from people whose lives have been touched by mountaintop removal:
http://earthjustice.org/our_work/campaigns/stop-mountaintop-removal-mining
I love moose as well as mountains!
And, courtesy of AlterNet, 5 mines that will trash life on Earth:
http://www.alternet.org/environment/148874/5_mining_projects_that_could_devastate_the_entire_planet?page=entire
and it doesn’t even include Pebble!
Zyxomma – That was an interesting article and so far as I can judge from other sources I was already aware of largely factual. There is no question in my mind that mining of raw materials such as copper is less environmentally damaging than mining and use of fossil fuels but that fairly subtle point is rarely brought up. Another thing that is never mentioned is that at least in terms of oil, but also to a lesser extent in terms of coal or natural gas, it is impossible to recover the entire in situ reserves stated. Depending on circumstances, primary recovery from an oil reservoir will be in the range of 20% to 40% of the oil in situ. Again, depending on circumstances, secondary recovery, by means of the injection of “reservoir water” may enable recovery of another 10% to 20% of the original oil in place. With advanced technologies, usually involving the drilling of many more wells and injection of expensive chemical cocktails such as surfactants and polymers a fraction of the “residual reserves” can be produced. Since the last time I had any direct experience with these processes was almost 30 years ago it is certainly possible that yet another phase of production enhancement has been invented but if so I am not aware of it, or familiar with how it works.
In thinking about and talking about these subjects things get complicated very fast once you try to use theoretical concepts to interpret reality. One of the biggest hurdles for example is the concept of the term oil reservoir. It might be instructive to do a poll here and see how many people think that means “underground lakes of oil”. It doesn’t. An oil reservoir is just a porous rock saturated with a combination of water and hydrocarbons because the fluids are trapped by the geologic accident of being overlain by impermeable rocks and other factors.
My point I guess is this, the average person *should not* need to know much of anything about petroleum geology or engineering. In an ideal world. But we don’t live in an ideal world.
And as long as survival is a greater issue than intellectual curiosity, we will never even approach an ideal world.
I should mention that the word “fossil” as it is used in the article you cited and in what I have said here has special significance. That is because it refers to vast quantities, hundreds of billions of tonnes of carbon that have been *sequestered* by natural processes. That is to say removed from the temporal cycles of atmospheric, oceanic and land chemistry that occur in temporal terms that are perceivable in human life times. You could think of it as the natural response to excess carbon over geologic time. Hundreds of millions of years. Yet in less than a century we have reintroduced huge amounts of this fossil carbon to the earth’s chemistry. We already know of two effects from this behavior that are unpredictably deleterious, the one is the greenhouse gas effect that leads to global warming, and the other is ocean acidification as the result of the increased partial pressure of atmospheric CO2 enhancing the formation of carbonic acid in sea water.
What ultimately will occur because of these effects we do not know. Nor do we have the knowledge to make reasonable predictions. Yet there are plenty of people who are more than willing, in fact eager, to lie about what we do know with high certainty, for money.
Certain prominent individuals have the audacity to claim that the mountains of evidence and the centuries of man hours or work that is the science behind global warming is a fraud. You have to ask yourself, is it easier and more cost effective to organize a systematic fraud among thousands of independently educated, funded and inventively competitive researchers, or to cross the palm of mediocre egotist ?
Here’s a simple test anyone can use in any conversation about climate change, just ask them what is the most abundant gas in the atmosphere.
KN – thanks, again, for a most informative post! [One, I might add, that I believe should also go into a “Stuff You’re Glad You Know” (or some such) should ever such a section on the ‘flats come about.] beth.
Thanks beth,
I just tried the forums again with no luck, the forms accept all my inputs but then nothing works and I can’t log in or change my password, or even verify my username is correct.
I suggested in another thread that the forums might be a place to start up a conversation and organization but since I can’t even tell how they work I won’t be able to make any contribution. If something develops and you want to make some sort of archive of things I have commented on here I give a blanket release to do so but please quote me in entirety. Quotes out of context are SOP for deniers and trolls.
Also, too, don’t take what I say at face value, I am fallible and actually quite distracted with other things most of the time so I am certainly capable of stating things poorly, and/or omitting, understating, overstating, etc. etc., just like anyone else but I try to render good arguments off the cuff. It is gratifying that a few mudflatters think my comments are useful or informative.
http://www.fiscalstrength.com/
I like this!!!
Me, too, Thanks.
I want to keep the limit at 250K not 1 Million in income. Wonder how many now make more than 250K but less than 1M?
I sure hope the Dems take a firm stand on this. The vast majority of the country is behind them to do just that.
Good heavens! 19 of the 34 signees are from CA. A whole bunch more from NY. People willing to shrink the national debt for our children. Only 8 from the rill Umurikun states.
Aren’t real Americans the ones that want to help America grow in all positive ways, not just monetarily? Aren’t real Americans the ones that want to help their neighbors? Aren’t real Americans the ones who have studied history and seen that by an overwhelming percentage, the best growth takes places the more fairly all groups are treated?
Wake up and smell the rill tea, teapartiers. Overall good for a population has been better achieved in the more liberal states than in the conservative ones. Places where people really want to include everyone on the ride are more successful than those that promote personal hoarding.
We’ve got to make this GO VIRAL!
Huffington Post: Stop Promoting Palin Petition
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/huffington-post-stop-promoting-palin/
This URL is no longer up and running.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/huffington-post-stop-promoting-palin/
(I don’t know why your link doesn’t work – it looks fine!)
We have enough trouble with deer in our yard. They eat our flowers, bird seed, tomatoes, and knock down our fence. But what amazed us one Thanksgiving Day, was seeing a wild turkey in our backyard while having our Thanksgiving dinner. Amazing!!!!!!!
I love the wild turkeys. I had a lovely flock in the neighborhood this summer. 3 Hens and around 10 babies. I love to watch them march. I haven’t seen them lately. Hope they were not an early dinner for some of the other wild life in the woods.
Sad moose news from my neck of the woods, came across a poached moose while walking the dogs this morning :(, only about 150m from a residences, and right by the path in the woods …still trying to figure out who to report it too. Can’t get hold of anybody from crime stoppers. I guess i have to wait till Monday to call natural resources . I could call the RCMP , but i haven’t had a lot of good experiences with them following up on things.
Call DNR. They’re on duty all weekend 453-2345. You’ll get routed to a dispatcher.
Buzzwinkle’s offspring?
They say that moose are becoming more prevalent here in CT. I’m not so sure I want one of those behemoths in my back yard! Sheesh, they are really huge. Tree trunk legs, even. But awesome just the same. Keep them up north, please!
If you seen any, send them my way in western NY. I have a 4-foot fence around my backyard so they would have no trouble easily stepping over to come and visit. I’d even plant some extra veggies to share with the big fellas!
Leenie, FYI – they love pumpkins!!
Hmmmmm…may have to re-evaluate my planting plan for next year. The closest moosies we have in NY right now are in the Adirondacks…it’s ONLY a couple hundred miles to my house from there!
Joe Biden, in an interview, commented on the qiestion of whether Democrats should wish for Palin to run for President. “You know, my mom used to have an expression, ‘Be careful what you wish for, Joe, you may get it.’ So I never underestimate anyone,” he said. But “I believe President Obama would be in very good shape.”
This is correct. Of course, Sarah, being the megalomaniac she is, doesn’t need a quote from the opposition (wishing she’d run because she’d get whipped) to put on the locker room bulletin board to fire her up. But her forces do. The handlers of the right, whether by design or evolution, have come to rely on gimmicks to get mom, dad, and every voting member in the clan down to the polls to stop the perceived evil ju jour. But Palin is polarizing enough that she’d probably inspire enough people from the center-right and to the left to go to the polls to counteract this.
I think the less insolence on the part of our leaders (and news pundits) thrown at her the better. This is where I disagree with Olbermann’s nightly mockery. Yes, we’ve all met someone like Sarah Palin — like the nice middle-aged lady who runs the Hallmark card shop in town but if you get her talking suddenly you’re cringing at her strong negative opinions about things she barely knows anything about. It’s the fatal flaw in much of conservatism: a conservative choice is fine as long as the range of choices have been investigated, but to assume the conservative choice is always the best so it’s not necessary to know anything else… well, back the Hallmark card lady.
So, I hope Obama, Pelosi, et al, treat Palin and everyone with respect. It’s really about not lowering oneself to their level. Palin (which means that just about anyone) has a chance in an ugly brawl, which she’s probably counting on.
I think that you are right on in your assessment of this. Palin wants a down and dirty fight. Let’s not let her have it.
The more she mocks and spouts nonsense the better. Same for all the rest of the Baggers. Let’s point out how they oppose the START treaty making us less safe. Let’s point out how they want to add $700 Billion in borrowed funds from the Chinese to add to the national debt to make sure the very rich can buy a new Mercedes every year.
Considering how Joe Biden showed her the utmost (albeit undeserved) respect during the debate, and how the Obama family has consistently and pointedly ignored her attacks or responded in a polite but slightly offhanded way (as if to say that they have much more important things to deal with), I suspect that they will all continue to handle her with just the right touch. They will avoid taking her on in a spitting contest whenever possible, but, when cornered, will treat her attacks like the insignificant, desperate cries for attention that they really are.
They’ve all handled themselves admirably, particularly in contrast to her frantic ranting and screechifyin’, and I have no doubt they will continue to do so. Of course, the fact that their lack of response makes her go absolutely batsh!t makes their choosing the high road all the more enjoyable! 😉
doesn’t it though? she is very like a loooooong, liiiiiiiiiingering miasma that coils itself under doors; slips through closed windows and slithers though cracks in the floor. horrendous woman.
Ooooohhh….perhaps there’s a part for her in the next Harry Potter movie!!!
Another gem by Frum (the man does have a sense of humor):
http://www.frumforum.com/are-palins-ghostwriters-messing-with-her
OMG,
You will love this one. http://www.frumforum.com/palin-preps-on-europes-debt-crisis
Bill O’Reilly said she is studying up. Not a bad deal. Make a ton of money and go back to school to become the next mastermind in the world. Best villain comeback plot in any super hero novel!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/25/bill-oreilly-sarah-palin_n_476345.html
Great read…thanks!
Frum writes a whopping good critique of Palin’s view of America’s history and her slanted view about its citizenry:
http://www.frumforum.com/bigger-problems-with-palin%E2%80%99s-new-book
This reality about Palin’s take on “Rill America” is something that really needs to be exploited.
“Often and repeatedly, she writes huge numbers of people out of the American story.”
Frum’s best quote.
Ouch. Read a site is being sued over her book. I thought it was simply going to sell more of her books. I think it is already doing rather well.
When your own groups buy in bulk to give away to your fan base, it always increases sales. What the numbers don’t tell you is how many are buying one or two copies for personal use at a bookstore/Amazon for their full prince. I think most end up being used as premiums.
Well what I have in my yard are crows. Very smart and sometimes funny, but not much to look at.
I’m excited about Thanksgiving. My daughter got married this summer and they bought a house.
Having Thanksgiving in my daughter’s house. I don’t know where the years went!!!!
Crows are a pain. Thanksgiving is a great time isn’t it? I am rather fond of turkey. :O)
*ahem*
(although the school board may agree with you!)
🙂
The sparrows and other assorted feathered and small furry critters in my yard are particularly fond of my neighborhood crows. There is a hawk that occasionally comes to dine at my birdfeeder and, when they see it, the crows make a racket loud enough to wake the dead, giving all of the smart critters enough time to hide. Anything that isn’t smart enough to heed the crows’ warning gets eaten, thus strengthening the gene pool. Win-win for everyone!
I’ve even seen the crows harassing and chasing off the hawk when I presume it got too close to one of their nests. They’re so fascianting to watch that I usually forgive their sometimes earsplitting noise!
A pain in the school board is a triumph! 🙂
I love crows. One of the back yards I’ve owned will full of tall conifers–trunks in the yard, needles way up above. I’d come out in the yard to work, and they’d throw cones down at me. Sometimes, they’d pick up small rocks, and then fly up and drop them. I’d get annoyed and try to squirt them with the water jet. They’d laugh. It got to be a game after a while. They got used to having me around so they’d drip stuff near me, not on me. I’d squirt into the trees, which cooled things off. Sort of a reciprocal existence.
LOL
thatcrowwoman – try this: http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/15746
One of my favorites.
Tall, dark, and handsome…times two!
*swoon*
Hey, thatcrowwoman, are you feeling better after your migraine attack???
much better, thanks
Milbank offers an important point of view about airport security and START:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/19/AR2010111902596.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Really good points. I wouldn’t mind being scanned if I did in fact fly and would be definitely want everyone to go through the process. The bigger issue is we have a problem with government trust. People will cut off their nose to spite their face. Some people see it as government waste instead of safety. This puts the government in a rough spot. Then we are going to have people crying about exposure to the scanning process. If they say (no scan-no fly) it will set off another issue. Pretty soon, we will be sending the non scans on there own plane and the scanned on others. Geesh.
(their)
The START section makes sense- the security thingy does not.
Contrary to what he says, this is not about giving Rs a black eye for past bad behavior, it’s about a complete breakdown in a program which identifies risk and applies methods to address the risks at the lowest possible cost. We have yet to have a meaningful public conversation about what might work best, a transparent discussion where we can see how criteria for judgment are weighted in relationship to each other, etc.
I’m not talking about open discussion of actual security information but rather a discussion which includes some measure of sanity as regards what we have boxed ourselves into and whether we really are safer as well as what the best methods might be to work towards our goals.
Quite frankly, I have no more trust in what an FBI security person thinks is the way to deal with a threat than I do what my dentist thinks on the subject. The FBI person’s area of expertise is in identifying the threat…
And if the Rs , some of them, are getting in touch with their inner libertarian, fine. Let’s have some Dems get in touch with their inner community organizer and get some sensible projects going which do more to make us safe and less to damage our rights and open society.
I do hope the R’s get called out on this blocking of START. It’s the perfect example of how blind they are to the welfare of the USA. Just like small children stomping their feet to get power.
As for airport security, I agree, it needs a whole overhaul. I don’t think it should be “privatized”, rather it needs to have the best experts consulted to determine what system would work best and still safeguard our civil rights. The system now assumes we are all “guilty” and treats us accordingly with physical searches.
I like the Israeli way with trained professionals interviewing everyone several times. Of course, this requires a better trained and probably more expensive TSA employee.
I heard the section about Israeli security on NPR which brought back memories having traveled there years ago. I was annoyed by their questions but they were amazingly well trained and they are indeed effective. The process is time consuming and Americans will not like it any better than anything else they have been put through. To complain has become the American way.
Welcome Mike from Ioway! We are always glad to have more join us. In case you are very new to the forum, you may not be aware that some of us were fortunate enough to meet up at the Stop the Insanity Rally in D.C. at the end of October. Dozens of great photos are posted on various sites. If you haven’t seen them and want to, we can post links for you. “Mludstocks” are held from time to time at various places around the country and everyone who can get to them are very welcome. The Forum will usually have a thread about any up and coming ones.
Another great read is Joe McGuinness’ “Going To Extremes”. He wrote it about 30 years ago and is a fascinating look at that time – which happens to be the same time frame when our family moved to Alaska. There are several Alaskans who have also authored great books to read (NO, I’m NOT referring to $arah Palin!) LOL
To be a mudpup, you need to have a Brian of your own handy so that you can get him into any photos of you, whether going about your daily routine, or most especially on any travel and vacations!
If you go to this link (in case you haven’t already) https://themudflats.net/forum/index.php
there are instructions for registering and introducing yourself, and countless topics to join in the discussions.
Again – Welcome!
oh!!! good on you Greatgranny!. Mike you would have loved the DC rally and meeting all of us who were able to attend. it was a grand occasion and a beautiful day. Jaime from Wasilla posted some nice pics of the rally in Alaska. enjoy.
You mentioned Alaska books – and it reminded me of one by Sally McMahan Pollen who lived in Palmer, It was “Papa Was A Bush Pilot” and started me on my interest in Alaska. Long before the sowah.
A+ Beezer! Thanks for the memories. I’m still laughing. These guys were priceless. I love, love, love Hollywood Squares.
Great picture of the dynamic duo – thanks AKM & Shannyn!
Picked this up from a commentor over at Amazon.com regarding “Sarah Palin tells Barbara Walters she thinks she can beat Bozo the Clown in a bicycle race”. (Me thinks that the commentor must have joined Brian and his buddy for lunch!) Anyway thought I would share as they brought back some good memories of that often hilarious TV oldie “Hollywood Squares”
Q. Paul, what is a good reason for pounding meat?
A. Paul Lynde: Loneliness!
(The audience laughed so long and so hard it took up almost 15 minutes of the show!)
Q. Do female frogs croak?
A. Paul Lynde: If you hold their little heads under water long enough.
Q. If you’re going to make a parachute jump, at least how high should you be?
A. Charley Weaver: Three days of steady drinking should do it.
Q. True or False, a pea can last as long as 5,000 years.
A. George Gobel: Boy, it sure seems that way sometimes.
Q. You’ve been having trouble going to sleep. Are you probably a man or a woman?
A. Don Knotts: That’s what’s been keeping me awake.
Q. According to Cosmopolitan, if you meet a stranger at a party and you think that he is attractive, is it okay to come out and ask him if he’s married?
A. Rose Marie: No wait until morning.
Q. Which of your five senses tends to diminish as you get older?
A. Charley Weaver: My sense of decency.
Q. In Hawaiian, does it take more than three words to say ‘I Love You’?
A. Vincent Price: No, you can say it with a pineapple and a twenty.
Q. What are ‘Do It,’ ‘I Can Help,’ and ‘I Can’t Get Enough’?
A. George Gobel: I don’t know, but it’s coming from the next apartment.
Q. Charley, you’ve just decided to grow strawberries. Are you going to get any during the first year?
A. Charley Weaver: Of course not, I’m too busy growing strawberries.
Q. In bowling, what’s a perfect score?
A. Rose Marie: Ralph, the pin boy.
Q. It is considered in bad taste to discuss two subjects at nudist camps. One is politics, what is the other?
A. Paul Lynde: Tape measures.
Q. When you pat a dog on its head he will wag his tail. What will a goose do?
A. Paul Lynde: Make him bark?
Q. If you were pregnant for two years, what would you give birth to?
A. Paul Lynde: Whatever it is, it would never be afraid of the dark.
Q. According to Ann Landers, is there anything wrong with getting into the habit of kissing a lot of people?
A. Charley Weaver: It got me out of the army.
Q. It is the most abused and neglected part of your body, what is it?
A. Paul Lynde: Mine may be abused, but it certainly isn’t neglected.
Q. Back in the old days, when Great Grandpa put horseradish on his head, what was he trying to do?
A. George Gobel: Get it in his mouth.
Q. Who stays pregnant for a longer period of time, your wife or your elephant?
A. Paul Lynde: Who told you about my elephant?
Q. When a couple have a baby, who is responsible for its sex?
A. Charley Weaver: I’ll lend him the car, the rest is up to him
Q. Jackie Gleason recently revealed that he firmly believes in them and has actually seen them on at least two occasions. What are they?
A. Charley Weaver: Fermented crab apples with Brian and the boys!
OKay- Yes I edited the last one – but couldn’t resist with the great photo of those bulls!!
Thanks for sharing those golden nuggets. They brought back a lot of good memories of laughing until I cried watching those folks answer the questions. Some of them could have given Master Classes on thow to entertain.
I read somewhere that the panelists were given the questions ahead of time so they could come up with their funny ‘spontaneous’ comments, but that never ruined the humor of it for me.
Being from Ioway,I don’t want to brag,but………. I have a wealth of experience in what to do when the ladies aren’t interested. You could say its a life-long experience with me. Please tell Brian and the boys that I’m not too keen on fermented crabapples. I like pickled ones,though. I also can’t join in any reindeer games as I’m too old and my poor aching back won’t take it. I would like to become an official Mudpup and honorary Alaskan citizen in good standing. Also I’d not mind being knighted by the Queen of England . That would look nice on my resume. Mainly I ache to be a Mudpup. As much as I love my miles of cornfields and fairly flat ground(I’ve never lived anywhere else) I read books by Jim Klelgaard and have wanted to be a trapper in “Snow Dog” country since about fifth or sixth grade.
Mike, Being a Mudpup is a state of mind and you can be anywhere. That’s what’s great about this virtual community.
Glad to see Mudpuppiness is spreading.
Waving at Mudpup Mike in Iowa, and fondly remembering the detasseling days of my youth. (corn, pups, corn detasseling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detasseling)
Another mudpup who remembers Iowa detasseling waving at Mike. You are already a mudpup. Congratulations. Hey Scout!
hey Scout, Amy and Fan, i have never heard a more sweeter request for puppydom.
welcome Mike from Ioway! glad to make your acquaintance.
Thank you all for the warm welcome. De-tasseling corn was the one farm job I’ve never done and don’t want. Walked acres of beans with a tow or three gallon sprayer.baled hay. shelled corn(one of my favorite jobs) and all the rest. Check in fromtime to time. This place feels like family.
Mike, Welcome to Mudpuppydom! For the ultimate expression of mudpuppyness, mosey on over to the Mudflats Forum and join up! You get to choose from many topics, both political and non-political and let your “inner” mudpuppy free to frolic with the rest of us!
Welcome Mike! We spent 18 years in Bettendorf and loved every minute, but eventually returned to Michigan to be near aging family. The Mudflats community is very open and supportive. Enjoy!
I’m sure the Queen of England will be happy to confer a knighthood on you, just as soon as she has knighted Sir Bill Bryson. 😉
very handsome 🙂
And handsome boys they are! How nice of them to create a photo op.
BAD ADN
Republicans to the public (this got covered by ADN) – it’s time to privatize airport security. This story was not covered by ADN (they failed to connect the dots):
“TSA employees to vote on union”
WASHINGTON, Nov. 13 (UPI) — The Federal Labor Relations Authority says Transportation Security Administration employees will be allowed to vote on union representation.
Friday’s ruling is a major victory for federal employee unions, and clears the way for a campaign by the government’s two largest labor organizations to represent some 50,000 transportation security officers, The Washington Post reported.
“It is no secret that the morale of the TSO workforce is terrible as a result of favoritism, a lack of fair and respectful treatment from many managers, poor and unhealthy conditions in some airports, poor training and testing protocols and a poor pay system,” said American Federation of Government Employees President John Gage. “The morale problems are documented by the government’s own surveys. TSOs need a recognized union voice at work, and the important decision of the FLRA finally sets the process in motion to make that right a reality.”
balance of the story here:
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2010/11/13/TSA-employees-to-vote-on-union/UPI-10301289666568/
Also Democracy Now did a good story on Full Body Scanners and the governments use of them today: “National Outcry Over TSA Body Scanners and Invasive Pat-Downs” http://www.democracynow.org/2010/11/19/national_outcry_over_tsa_body_scanners
It’s worth noting that the term the Republicans should be using is “re-privatize” since before George Bush The Lesser created Homeland Security and TSA (like on Sept 11 2001) airport security had already been privatized.
Just got back from CA playing with grand kids. Because I have replacement knees (love ’em) I set off the metal detectors at the airport. I was appalled at the new pat down. It is very invasive and I have never felt so violated. This new pat down affects a lot of people with replacement hips and knees. Not likely to be carrying explosives. The so called “underwear” bomber would go through the metal detector and not be caught. I am writing letters to Congress people, Homeland Security etc. This has to stop. It is not making us any safer. We need to try the Israel method. They have no problems. End of rant.
There was an expert from Israeli security on Keith Olberman the other night talking about how this new TSA system just doesn’t work. He explained that the system they use in Israel, which depends on behavioral profiling, NOT profiling by race or other physical characteristics, has been proven to be the most effective. They utilize the wasted time spent in line waiting for check-in to ask questions of the passengers, using the answers and the behavior of the passengers to determine of that person is a threat.
No body scanners, no instrusive patdowns…just effective security. We could learn a lot from the Israeli system.
I would love to have more in-depth about the Israeli system.
Of course, I would never be allowed to fly again because I am so paranoid and suspicious of intrusive questions and so prone to angry snark when answering.
I would have to be heavily medicated with anti-anxiety medicines to travel. C’est la vie.
I think most Americans would find the questioning intrusive, even though it is effective. We aren’t accustomed to uniformed strangers asking us whom we are visiting, their relationship to us, the reason for our visit, the city/neighborhood in which they live, our religious affiliation, etc. Israelis and visitors to Israel know that the risk of terrorism there is much higher than in America, and accept the intrusion and inconvenience. I doubt that Americans would accept it on ordinary domestic flights, and I don’t think they should have to.
I’d like to know how many airplanes per year go in and out of Israel in a year, as compared to the US. Not a complaint, just an observation that often very good small-scale programs do not scale up.
Why don’t they just give the TSO more money instead of buying a ton of TSA scanners? If I got paid more, I would have the incentive to look at people more closely and dog pile the bad guys. Save on the excess security measures and think out of the box when training. Hire a squad of criminal analysts. I love safety but people are going to have to make a choice on rather to travel or not. Most of us chickens will not fly anyway.
Travel outside the USA and the difference is remarkable, and its very obvious what we have lost since 2001.
It makes sense that better pay should equal better employees. I remember when they got rid of the baggage handlers (changed them from employees of the airlines to contractors working for another company). If it saved the airlines money, it must have cut benefits and/or pay for the employees. Who would be more tempted to break the rules an employee with a personal stake in the company or a poorly paid resentful employee? All of these jobs have to be good enough that there is little turnover and the employees are known and trustworthy.
Personally, I think good intelligence is the only thing that is going to keep us safe on airplanes. As for the TSA, if we are putting in wish-lists, here’s mine: 1) the individual screeners get paid better; 2) they get trained better; 3)they are not subject to the whims of individual airports who hire them. The last time I flew out of Seattle, my seatmate told me a story about her partner, who worked for TSA at SEAT-TAC. Because the partner was an open lesbian, her supervisor told her she would have to be moved to baggage search rather than people scan. This, she was told, was for her “own protection,” in case, because she was a lesbian, some passenger complained that the woman had groped her. (Yes, think about the logic of that for a minute.She’s probably not wearing a badge that says “Lesbian.”) If we’re trusting these people with our security, our persons and our lives, can we pay and treat them like professionals?
Thanks for the union story. I haven’t seen that. I have heard to R’s yapping about how government can’t do anything well and we should make it private. Of course, some of the leading proponents also have received big campaign donations from the most likely private contractors. Why would anyone think that private contractors cost less? To much government stuff is contracted out.
I also think that the whole way we do “screening” needs an overhaul. I like the Israeli way of talking to every passenger. Several times. The Brits also used this method. They also profiled. I had a few patdowns and had my luggage rummaged in Heathrow a few times. But then I looked like a person from the group that was causing the troubles. I was personally offended but also understood why I was “picked” on given my ethnic heritage. Come to think of it, my “American” attitude with the interviewer probably didn’t help either.
I flew a few weeks ago to Mexico and was surprised at how little was done in the interview portion of the checkpoint. It was just a document check. This person should have been asking questions. It would not have slowed anything down.
Chuckle…we Americans aren’t too good with subtle. Knee-jerk, we do well…subtle, not so much.
Unless it’s IN YOUR FACE *visible*, it just ain’t there!
Can you say: “False sense of security?”
We stand in line sans shoes and run our zip-lock baggie full of allowed liquids through the scanner…and we are ‘safe’. We go through a pat down and/or machine…and we are ‘safe.’ Those are IN YOUR FACE, so we figure all is well. Totally unnecessary and absurd [because the odds of liquids and/or shoes ever being used by someone like myself, a mumbledy-mumbledy-year old woman with implanted hardware, to blow up a plane are astronomical!] but we are ‘safe.’ It takes me a good 1/2 hour to 45 minutes to go through screening because of hardware implanted 45-years ago, but fellow passengers are ‘safe.’ For a while there, I couldn’t even carry-on matches. Or batteries. Or metal nail files. Or cuticle scissors. Or sewing scissors. Or hand razors. Had to be that way to keep us ‘safe.’ I can carry-on all of those, now, though. Go figure.
Just curious: How many planes out of Israel have had wanna-be/foiled bombers on them? And how many wanna-be/foiled bombers have been stopped through our IN YOUR FACE ‘tactics’? Hmmm — thought so.
Sad thing is, we’ll never adopt Israel’s way of ensuring passengers are not up to no good through scientifically and practice-proven psychological profiling; we’ll insist on continuing IN YOUR FACE…we don’t do subtle well. At all. beth.
== It takes me a good *>additional<* 1/2 hour to 45 minutes to go through screening because of hardware… [fell victim, again, to 'submit' before proofing syndrome.] b.==
The ACLU is all over this one, too. Check it out:
http://www.aclu.org/blog/technology-and-liberty/homeland-security-wants-see-you-naked