Open Thread – Alaska Republicans Not for Sarah Palin
Sorry for the belated open thread!
Here’s another in the Alaska Women Not for Sarah Palin series, whcih I’ll have to figure out how to end eventually. I probably have enough pictures to last a year, even if I didn’t quit half way through! This one I thought was interesting, because nobody has ever done more to divide the Republican Party in Alaska than Sarah Palin. It’s not just those on the left that don’t want anything to do with her. Just sayin.
TX Me
“You could call me a republican woman who does not want SP in the white house or any position of power. Of course I changed my voter registration to undeclared the week after she was picked…”
I always have considered my self an independant, not by party, but by the ideal that one should always vote for the best candidate, regardless of their affiliation.
I rarely vote for a conservative, but when I was still in Texas, conservatives come from all parties, as do populists.
Whoever seems to be on the side of us “little people” (spoken with French accent, or was it Dutch?)
TX Me
“You could call me a republican woman who does not want SP in the white house or any position of power. Of course I changed my voter registration to undeclared the week after she was picked…”
I always have considered my self an independant, not by party, but by the ideal that one should always vote for the best candidate, regardless of their affiliation.
I rarely vote for a conservative, but when I was still in Texas, conservatives come from all parties, as do populists.
Whoever seems to be on the side of us “little people” (spoken with French accent, or was it Dutch?)
It is a pity that the rest of the country’s TBaggers and RepoTaliban do not take St. Sarah’s fall from grace in her home state seriously.
As in, there is probably a reason she went from 80% to around 20% approval is a little over a year. (And it is not like she, as governor, was addressing the kinds of complicated issues that, say, a President, has to address.
Probably, if she dones’t address the reasons for her abject failure and fix them, that is exactly what will happen to her in any public office – in any position of responsibility.
It is a pity that the rest of the country’s TBaggers and RepoTaliban do not take St. Sarah’s fall from grace in her home state seriously.
As in, there is probably a reason she went from 80% to around 20% approval is a little over a year. (And it is not like she, as governor, was addressing the kinds of complicated issues that, say, a President, has to address.
Probably, if she dones’t address the reasons for her abject failure and fix them, that is exactly what will happen to her in any public office – in any position of responsibility.
So glad everyone liked this as much as I do! About the singer (from Wikipedia)
Lisa Lois (born 22 June 1987 as Lisa Hordijk) is a Dutch singer who rose to prominence after winning the second season of talent show X Factor. In 2009, she changed her stage name to Lisa Lois. (The song she sang was Hallelujah)
The song, written and performed by Leondard Cohen, has a surprising (toMe) Biblical tone. I tried posting a link to the words, but could’t – just Google “lyrics leonard cohen” and it will get you there.
Hugs to everyone!!
So glad everyone liked this as much as I do! About the singer (from Wikipedia)
Lisa Lois (born 22 June 1987 as Lisa Hordijk) is a Dutch singer who rose to prominence after winning the second season of talent show X Factor. In 2009, she changed her stage name to Lisa Lois. (The song she sang was Hallelujah)
The song, written and performed by Leondard Cohen, has a surprising (toMe) Biblical tone. I tried posting a link to the words, but could’t – just Google “lyrics leonard cohen” and it will get you there.
Hugs to everyone!!
It is okay with me, AKM, if you do not end this series, it is important work with much value.
It is okay with me, AKM, if you do not end this series, it is important work with much value.
Thanks to all of you…!
love to all pups…and hugs too.
Thanks to all of you…!
love to all pups…and hugs too.
Dear, dear Oscar…
A big virtual hug to everyone on this site.
Dear, dear Oscar…
A big virtual hug to everyone on this site.
Here’s a link that will brighten your day for sure. And at the end there’e a quote by Oscar Wilde that could apply to all us Mudpuppies that have shared moments on this wonderful site. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=hN8CKwdosjE
That was wonderful tigerwine. Thanks for posting it. :hug:
That brought tears…..I must be needing a hug. Thanks for sharing that!
((((((((((seattlefan))))))))))
{{{{{ seattlefan}}}}}
Glad to hear I wasn’t the only one. Thanks for sharing!
That was great! I feel particularly touched (and proud) because it was filmed in Italy, and I am 100% Italian. My mother was born in Italy, and my father’s parents were from Sicily. Sad to say, but I’m not sure how “Free Hugs” would go over in the US. Anyone want to try it?! =)
I know it was done in Chicago in 2006, but am not sure where else.
I’m free with hugs in the halls of my high school between classes, like everyone’s favorite but slightly eccentric auntie, despite the prevailing wisdom not to touch students and colleagues.
I’ve caused any number of traffic jams in the hallways when I pass my kindergarten students and one crosses over to hug me. Like having to pee, hugs are extremely contagious at 5 years old and they all line up to do the honors!
A couple of years ago, I had several consecutive bouts of bronchitis and laryngitis (5 year olds share LOTS of things!) and was out sick a lot during a three month period. During most of that time, I had little or no voice on the days I dragged myself in to school and the kids got used to not being able to hear me. After Feb break, when I had finally recovered, I entered one of my first grade classes, sat in the rocker in the front of the room and said something. The eyes of one of my girls got really wide and she exclaimed, “You have your voice back!!!”. That started a stampede and I ended up with a lapful of 6 year olds. Made me feel sooo much better than any medicine I had taken!
You are a natural teacher…….thank you.
Grazie! Had to swab tears before I replied. That song gets me every time.
we could be twins, dear one
You don’t want to be my twin. I have the worst hair on the planet today. Humidity has me getting stuck in doorways smashing down my hair enough to get through!
Rosie gives me my summer shearing every 3-4 weeks…there’s not a hair on my head more than 2″ long! It was down to my waist when we first moved south, but that didn’t last long. (Have I mentioned a time or twelve that I’ve got winter in my blood?!) The shorter it gets, the shorter I want it. 🙂
Was that k.d. lang singing? Wow!
If that song doesn’t give you goosebumps or make you cry, get thee to a neurologist post haste because your body’s not connected to your heart!
leenie, I don’t think that is k.d. I have that version in my library and it doesn’t sound the same. I would love to know who it is. Anyone??? I have listened to many versions of this song and they are all amazing.
well, I’m not sure who it was, but it wasn’t Leonard Cohen 🙂
Wow – thank you, tigerwine! My husband and I really needed that. We were both in tears by its end. Tahnk you so much!
regalo abbracci mi amor.
aw dammit, I need a kleenex.
Thanks for the link. So sweet.
It brought back wonderful memories for me — when we moved overseas we had one daughter in jr high, and are a pretty reserved quiet couple, so had all sorts of fantasies about golfing & traveling in our free time. But we had a beautiful Scottish surprise in the form of our second daughter. She opened up a whole new traveling world for us, trips to other countries were filled with both women and men cuddling & touching & hugging our baby. Interesting talks with people from all over the world, that we most likely never would have had otherwise. Italy and Greece and Spain, in particular, were full of affectionate child-centric strangers! Even our lovely home of Scotland found us the focus of some crazy-in-baby-love people. But what wonderful adventures were had because of it, fantastic discussions (one with a woman in her 90s on a train telling us about her experiences during WW1).
And as I watched it I wondered how something like that would go over in Aberdeen (our temporary home and the home of my heart always)… Lo and behold, there’s one in Scotland, and you can see that they are not the dour Scots that they are painted as in film & myth. That moved me to tears. I miss the rain, the friends and the experiences we had there.
I would have to think long & hard before trying that out here though………………..
Made my evening…Hugs to all. Thanks tigerwine…Cheers.
tigerwine-thank you, i needed that.
OK, so that was really cool. But somebody please explain to me why that made me cry. The little kid and old people hugs were the sweetest, and I love the way some people add a little back rub with their hug. I think my favorite though was the woman who kind of danced away after the hug.
The best thing about my husband’s family is that they are great huggers – and we hug a lot. When we first meet and when we say good-bye. So our daughters are great huggers as well since they grew up doing it. I love it.
A friend once told me that when someone (especially your child or teenager) gives you a hug, you shouldn’t be the first one to break away. It’s amazing the great hugs you share with your kids when you do that.
My Auntie is the best Hugger – must keep her young ‘cuz at 82 she still has black hair.
I love her to pieces.
Here’s a link that will brighten your day for sure. And at the end there’e a quote by Oscar Wilde that could apply to all us Mudpuppies that have shared moments on this wonderful site. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=hN8CKwdosjE
That was wonderful tigerwine. Thanks for posting it. :hug:
That brought tears…..I must be needing a hug. Thanks for sharing that!
((((((((((seattlefan))))))))))
{{{{{ seattlefan}}}}}
Glad to hear I wasn’t the only one. Thanks for sharing!
That was great! I feel particularly touched (and proud) because it was filmed in Italy, and I am 100% Italian. My mother was born in Italy, and my father’s parents were from Sicily. Sad to say, but I’m not sure how “Free Hugs” would go over in the US. Anyone want to try it?! =)
I know it was done in Chicago in 2006, but am not sure where else.
I’m free with hugs in the halls of my high school between classes, like everyone’s favorite but slightly eccentric auntie, despite the prevailing wisdom not to touch students and colleagues.
I’ve caused any number of traffic jams in the hallways when I pass my kindergarten students and one crosses over to hug me. Like having to pee, hugs are extremely contagious at 5 years old and they all line up to do the honors!
A couple of years ago, I had several consecutive bouts of bronchitis and laryngitis (5 year olds share LOTS of things!) and was out sick a lot during a three month period. During most of that time, I had little or no voice on the days I dragged myself in to school and the kids got used to not being able to hear me. After Feb break, when I had finally recovered, I entered one of my first grade classes, sat in the rocker in the front of the room and said something. The eyes of one of my girls got really wide and she exclaimed, “You have your voice back!!!”. That started a stampede and I ended up with a lapful of 6 year olds. Made me feel sooo much better than any medicine I had taken!
You are a natural teacher…….thank you.
Grazie! Had to swab tears before I replied. That song gets me every time.
we could be twins, dear one
You don’t want to be my twin. I have the worst hair on the planet today. Humidity has me getting stuck in doorways smashing down my hair enough to get through!
Rosie gives me my summer shearing every 3-4 weeks…there’s not a hair on my head more than 2″ long! It was down to my waist when we first moved south, but that didn’t last long. (Have I mentioned a time or twelve that I’ve got winter in my blood?!) The shorter it gets, the shorter I want it. 🙂
Was that k.d. lang singing? Wow!
If that song doesn’t give you goosebumps or make you cry, get thee to a neurologist post haste because your body’s not connected to your heart!
leenie, I don’t think that is k.d. I have that version in my library and it doesn’t sound the same. I would love to know who it is. Anyone??? I have listened to many versions of this song and they are all amazing.
well, I’m not sure who it was, but it wasn’t Leonard Cohen 🙂
Wow – thank you, tigerwine! My husband and I really needed that. We were both in tears by its end. Tahnk you so much!
regalo abbracci mi amor.
aw dammit, I need a kleenex.
Thanks for the link. So sweet.
It brought back wonderful memories for me — when we moved overseas we had one daughter in jr high, and are a pretty reserved quiet couple, so had all sorts of fantasies about golfing & traveling in our free time. But we had a beautiful Scottish surprise in the form of our second daughter. She opened up a whole new traveling world for us, trips to other countries were filled with both women and men cuddling & touching & hugging our baby. Interesting talks with people from all over the world, that we most likely never would have had otherwise. Italy and Greece and Spain, in particular, were full of affectionate child-centric strangers! Even our lovely home of Scotland found us the focus of some crazy-in-baby-love people. But what wonderful adventures were had because of it, fantastic discussions (one with a woman in her 90s on a train telling us about her experiences during WW1).
And as I watched it I wondered how something like that would go over in Aberdeen (our temporary home and the home of my heart always)… Lo and behold, there’s one in Scotland, and you can see that they are not the dour Scots that they are painted as in film & myth. That moved me to tears. I miss the rain, the friends and the experiences we had there.
I would have to think long & hard before trying that out here though………………..
Made my evening…Hugs to all. Thanks tigerwine…Cheers.
tigerwine-thank you, i needed that.
OK, so that was really cool. But somebody please explain to me why that made me cry. The little kid and old people hugs were the sweetest, and I love the way some people add a little back rub with their hug. I think my favorite though was the woman who kind of danced away after the hug.
The best thing about my husband’s family is that they are great huggers – and we hug a lot. When we first meet and when we say good-bye. So our daughters are great huggers as well since they grew up doing it. I love it.
A friend once told me that when someone (especially your child or teenager) gives you a hug, you shouldn’t be the first one to break away. It’s amazing the great hugs you share with your kids when you do that.
My Auntie is the best Hugger – must keep her young ‘cuz at 82 she still has black hair.
I love her to pieces.
This is an opinion piece from David Brooks (whom I genuinely deplore) about Mel Gibson, but if one changes the personal pronoun from “he” to “she,” it fits Sowah to a T:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/16/opinion/16brooks.html?src=me&ref=opinion
Here’s a taste: “His self-love is his most precious possession. It is the holy center of all that is sacred and right. He is hypersensitive about anybody who might splatter or disregard his greatness. If someone treats him slightingly, he perceives that as a deliberate and heinous attack. If someone threatens his reputation, he regards this as an act of blasphemy. He feels justified in punishing the attacker for this moral outrage.
And because he plays by different rules, and because so much is at stake, he can be uninhibited in response. Everyone gets angry when they feel their self-worth is threatened, but for the narcissist, revenge is a holy cause and a moral obligation, demanding overwhelming force.”
Health and peace.
“His self-love is his most precious possession. It is the holy center of all that is sacred and right. He is hypersensitive about anybody who might splatter or disregard his greatness. If someone treats him slightingly, he perceives that as a deliberate and heinous attack. If someone threatens his reputation, he regards this as an act of blasphemy. He feels justified in punishing the attacker for this moral outrage.
And because he plays by different rules, and because so much is at stake, he can be uninhibited in response. Everyone gets angry when they feel their self-worth is threatened, but for the narcissist, revenge is a holy cause and a moral obligation, demanding overwhelming force.”
http://www.bpd411.org also has a lot of eye-opening information.
Whoa…!
This is an opinion piece from David Brooks (whom I genuinely deplore) about Mel Gibson, but if one changes the personal pronoun from “he” to “she,” it fits Sowah to a T:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/16/opinion/16brooks.html?src=me&ref=opinion
Here’s a taste: “His self-love is his most precious possession. It is the holy center of all that is sacred and right. He is hypersensitive about anybody who might splatter or disregard his greatness. If someone treats him slightingly, he perceives that as a deliberate and heinous attack. If someone threatens his reputation, he regards this as an act of blasphemy. He feels justified in punishing the attacker for this moral outrage.
And because he plays by different rules, and because so much is at stake, he can be uninhibited in response. Everyone gets angry when they feel their self-worth is threatened, but for the narcissist, revenge is a holy cause and a moral obligation, demanding overwhelming force.”
Health and peace.
“His self-love is his most precious possession. It is the holy center of all that is sacred and right. He is hypersensitive about anybody who might splatter or disregard his greatness. If someone treats him slightingly, he perceives that as a deliberate and heinous attack. If someone threatens his reputation, he regards this as an act of blasphemy. He feels justified in punishing the attacker for this moral outrage.
And because he plays by different rules, and because so much is at stake, he can be uninhibited in response. Everyone gets angry when they feel their self-worth is threatened, but for the narcissist, revenge is a holy cause and a moral obligation, demanding overwhelming force.”
http://www.bpd411.org also has a lot of eye-opening information.
Whoa…!
Keep the photos circulating. Don’t stop! Only Alaskan women
and Alaskan citizens can tell the world about Sarah. This woman
is not fit for any PUBLIC OFFICE!!
Keep the photos circulating. Don’t stop! Only Alaskan women
and Alaskan citizens can tell the world about Sarah. This woman
is not fit for any PUBLIC OFFICE!!
Just a question — where is Trig? I have not seen him on Palin’s hip in a while. Is there something wrong with him? Is he in special classes? What level of down syndrome does he have? Or is he now to hot to handle (so to speak) in public? Not the cute little guy anymore? In other words, developing a personality that does not fit “perfect” Palin? Terrible twos or threes? Thanks to anyone that knows.
He has had very little intervention, because he was toted around. At last report he was not eating solid food yet!
I am so hoping he is at home, with somebody who loves him, getting the help he needs to be a productive member of society, rather than a prop. I hope that little boy is wearing his glasses, his hearing aids, eating solid food, and learning to sign, speak, and to keep his tongue in.
Me too. I’m glad he is finally out of the spotlight, but inconsistently, I’m curious about how he is doing. I do hope he is getting the treatments he needs to get the best possible start in life.
He has reportedly been with his “Aunt” Heather, Mrs. Palin’s sister.
Just a question — where is Trig? I have not seen him on Palin’s hip in a while. Is there something wrong with him? Is he in special classes? What level of down syndrome does he have? Or is he now to hot to handle (so to speak) in public? Not the cute little guy anymore? In other words, developing a personality that does not fit “perfect” Palin? Terrible twos or threes? Thanks to anyone that knows.
He has had very little intervention, because he was toted around. At last report he was not eating solid food yet!
I am so hoping he is at home, with somebody who loves him, getting the help he needs to be a productive member of society, rather than a prop. I hope that little boy is wearing his glasses, his hearing aids, eating solid food, and learning to sign, speak, and to keep his tongue in.
Me too. I’m glad he is finally out of the spotlight, but inconsistently, I’m curious about how he is doing. I do hope he is getting the treatments he needs to get the best possible start in life.
He has reportedly been with his “Aunt” Heather, Mrs. Palin’s sister.
You could call me a republican woman who does not want SP in the white house or any position of power. Of course I changed my voter registration to undeclared the week after she was picked — I decided that a party that had gone that far off the rails was not worthy of my support, and I did not want to be associated with it any longer.
I don’t really think whether or not republican women support her is the real issue. I think the real issue is wth happened to the republican party in its entirety, men and women, and why would anyone who looked into her actions as governor or mayor/ceo of wasilla think that she is a republican? She does not embody true republican political values. I really resent the anti-abortion (pro-life is NOT what they are about, given their support of the death penalty, and their refusal to help people after they leave the womb) co-opting by the republican party. I consider the democrats to be much more pro-life (social issues, anti-war, environment, against the death penalty, etc).
You’ve and others like you make a very good point by stating Taht the right wing nuts are for the death penalty, refuse to help women after birth, but still claim abortion is murder. If Palin and others like her, could give us a definition of “life” without giving us their opinion of when it beings as their definition, I might agree with them, but they never do.
Not to change the subject, but this week I finally realize that the Wasillia hillbilly families of Johnson and Palin is nothing more than a modern day Hatfield and McCoy family battle. Bristol claims she is not pregnant and she may not be, but the rush of those two into marriage after their recent verbal battles, is somewhat confusing for me. I did enjoy Sarah’s so called written reaction to the news, you could easily read between the lines the she was not happy about it. I do hope it comes out in the news that Levi is shacking up with her so others will see the real Bristol and how well she upholds abstinence. Maybe then we will can seriously talk about sex education and stop pretending it doesn’t occur, or that abstinence is all you need to know.
There is so much political rhetoric out there. I know a ton of wonderful Republicans. How often do we really say, what Political group are you? I think people have a wide range of views on different areas. That does not make them just a Dem or Republican. I don’t mind that Palin is pro-life. I just think when we stop to understand each other without logical debate, we forget to respect all women and the lives they live. I am bothered by her fake stance of being one way and then her commentary seems to suggest something else. I do not see her offering real solutions. It is more like watching a young woman who is defensive anytime someone disagrees with her. Stand up and be proud, and use your intellect. Debate with well thought out ideas and solutions for the problem our country faces. She has so many opportunities but seems to miss them all and I don’t think she can learn to be insightful. I don’t see her as a voice for the masses. And I wonder with a President Palin who will fit into her ideology when making money seems to priority? I think she will come out and study hard and try, but I think she will fall terribly short. I find several of my Republican friends liking her sound bites and the fact that she can raise money because they and she portrays to have conservative views, but they think of her as an entertainer like Glenn Beck. So, she is going to have an up hill battle with some folks.
Who isn’t “pro-life” besides Al Queda?
I think a more accurate description would be “anti-abortion.”
I don’t think *anyone* is *pro*-abortion; to put the discussion into “pro-/anti-abortion” and/or “pro-/anti-life” does both ‘sides’ a great disservice…and gives both ‘sides’ an insurmountable disadvantage.
Neither ‘side’ can get a fair hearing with those labels. Depending on which ‘label’ you adopt as your own, and/or which label you have projected on you, you’re inevitably ‘damned if you do; damned if you don’t.’ (i.e. ~ If you identify as “pro-life”, reconcilliation with issues such as the death penalty, war, objection to universal health care, and the like, becomes problematic. Sooner or later, those issues are brought up and held against you.)
Anti-abortion automatically assigns the other ‘side’ as *for* abortions. (i.e. ~ One might not *personally* –as far as their experience goes– be inclined to entertain the idea of having an abortion, but still be aware that their circumstances (so far) and experiences (so far) might not be the same an someone else’s. For them, *personally*, abortion would probably *not* ever be an ‘option’.) Pro-life automatically assigns the other side as *against* life. Neither is an accurate depiction of those who hold the *other* ‘side’s’ views.
I think we should…we must!…frame any debate on the issue in *accurate* terms: There are those who are anti-choice (those who would ban –in most, if not all, cases– abortion in this nation) and there are those who are pro-choice (those who see the Constitutionally-supported and -legal necessity/imperative of a woman’s *right* to have complete say over what happens to, and with, *her* body.)
That those who would deny a woman control over her body, have co-opted the debate by using *their* teminology (pro-life and anti-abortion), is no reason for that terminology to continue to be used in discussing the highly contentious issue. As far as I can tell, there’s no one who is set-always-in-stone *for/pro*-life OR *anti/against*-life any more than there’s anyone who is set-always-in-stone *for/pro*-abortions OR *anti/against*-abortion. There are, however, people who are anti-choice and those who are pro-choice. Leastwise, that’s the way I see it. beth.
Beth,
You did a good job of airing the issues so to speak and that is commendable. I largely agree with what you say.
To my silly mind the argument is pretty simple. First of all the only humans who have a dog in the game are women. Since men don’t give birth. So the only people empowered to choose about giving birth versus terminating an unwanted pregnancy should be the individual women confronted with that choice. As far as I am concerned the rest of us should just butt out.
Then there is the obvious and blatent contradiction of those who seemingly advocate for autonomy from government intrusion screeming for government to scrutinize women for fecundity.
To any reasoning person the thing is a joke, a travesty, a farce. But there are plenty of fools apparently who will accept that kind of twisted logic because, well – I don’t know why they would, but I do know that they do.
Thanks for articulating what has been on my mind about the rhetorical misuse of that term in that particular debate. I have been pro-choice since before 4th grade when I had a debate with a classmate who went on to become a Catholic priest. I’m $P’s age, so it’s been a long time that I’ve thought I should have the final say on the subject of my own body.
You have said it very well. We need to make sure that we do not let anyone get away with claiming that they are pro-life when in fact they are just anti-choice.
I believe that language does matter. Most men have never really contemplated the issue of not having a “choice” when it comes to what will or will not happen to their bodies.
I don’t usually respond in these threads but Rene brings up an interesting point here that I would like to expand upon. I have been away from the US for a very long time with only very brief vists back home but I have sensed a deepening polarization from what was already quite polarized back in the 90s.
I can’t really describe myself politically because I am not at all dogmatic, every issue is worthy of considered evaluation and most of them are not clearly enough one thing of another to say you can 100% get behind it or oppose it. Add to that the further complication that it is now necessary to independently verify what is true and what is not and you have a situation where objective independent thought is a burdensome and risky business.
I can’t really offer any solutions or answers but I would like to make a few observations. I don’t have much respect for people who simply adopt whatever opinion happens to be the party line and so there are a lot of people that I write off politically because they obviously have not really thought about their position or their allegiances to their positions. That is just intellectually lazy and not very good citizenship either. These types appear on both sides of the political scale. There is yet another type of person that appears to be willfully disengaged from the whole process, they do not want to get involved in the debate and some of them do not even want to participate in the decision process. And then there are the few, the very few who base their whole existence on the process and are so caught up in it that they can be induced to take actions against their own best interests out of their zeal to further some stance that if they examined it closely they would find is really irrational if not plain crazy.
Frankly, all I can really say at this stage, having lived over 60 years through many things that could have been otherwise, is that the system is actually quite broken and dysfunctional. I am not so much dissapointed in my government or country as I am in my fellow citizens for a large number of reasons.
I am coming to the point of view, though I may never actually reach it, I am not sure, that the one paramount responsibility of citizenship is participation with goodwill.
I won’t try to make this into some kind of utiopian dissertation but I guess a valid question to ask is, as suggested in more than one place above, why are there distinctions in the degree to which life is “precious”? Why is personal autonomy such a wonderful thing but inapplicable to that greater than half of the population who happen to be burdened with the dangerous and life changing task of actually giving birth? Is there really such a thing as the “right” to reproduce and is it unlimited? And I guess most important of all, why is what we did in the past due any particular status or deference when what we know in the present is so much more extensive, encompassing, inclusive and precise? I can’t explain why, but human being appear to crave a kind of simplistic certainty virtually more than anything else. It is truly sad if that is so because we are all so superbly equipped to weigh and balance complex things.
There is a profound distinction between coming to a concensus among diverse minds, and appealing to the lowest common denominator to the exclusion of everything else.
We as individuals, pairs, families, and even larger communities are always subjected to influences that are carefully formulated to induce us to act in a certain way. We owe it to ourselves to assure that we are able to confront this onslaught of influences in a manner that allows us to make reasoned and informed choices. Yet that most fundamental human right is still a struggle.
Since this is an open thread I will leave it with an update on the status of the Macondo 252 well head in the GoM. The integrity test has been extended another 24 hours and might well be extended again. Other factors not discussed may be in play here such as assuring that the collection capacity in place is sufficient to capture all the oil that flows from the well when it is reopened. The well must be reopened in order to kill it effectively particularly because the results of the integrity testing have been somewhat ambiguous. Secondly it is important to reopen the well to preserve the capacity to shut it in. The test will have run for 72 hours some time tomorrow. That is sufficient time for even the largest hurricane to pass over the well site so it confirms that in an emergency of that sort, the well can be secured and the ships on station can navigate to weather the storm. For those who followed my line and are now reading at the oil drum, there are still a lot of wild speculations being offered up so keep your salt shaker handy.
Since I am on a poor connection I can’t do any of this video stuff so I have no idea what the Wilde quote was from Tigerwine’s post but one my favorites is:
“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.”
Thanks KN
Krubozumo Nyankoye…the Wilde quote at the end of the video is “For one moment our lives met, our souls touched.” It was appropriate to the video . The quote you cite is even better.
I always enjoy reading your posts. Your reflections on reproductive rights were spot on. Your statement,
“Why is personal autonomy such a wonderful thing but inapplicable to that greater than half of the population who happen to be burdened with the dangerous and life changing task of actually giving birth? Is there really such a thing as the “right” to reproduce and is it unlimited?” says it perfectly for me.
Thanks for your insights and wonderful contributions.
I wholeheartedly agree with your thanks to KN and his thoughtful posts.
I went to watch the video so I could come back and let KN know what the quote was, but the font was too tiny to read on the phone. The rest of the video was of people in a town in Italy offering free hugs, set to a woman with a beautiful voice like kd lang singing Hallelujah.
This reminded me of a very powerful 10-minute speech by a massage therapist who spoke in front of a group I belonged to the mid to late 80s. She’d never given a speech before and was nervous, but hers was the only one I remember (including my own!). She had all of us get up and hug the person on our one side then the other. Everyone felt better after the first one, then she had us not pat the next person and instead slowly rub the persons back. That was even better than just the hug or hug and pat on the back.
There a little kids that live near my parents, and one day when I went to visit, the 4 YO next door came running to hug me before I had my first foot on the ground, getting out of the car. I get him to give me a hug every time I see him now. (You can never have enough hugs, unless you are married to Mel Gibson, imo.)
KN, enjoy your writings.
Thoughtful and clear minded.
Krubozumo: “I can’t explain why, but human beings appear to crave a kind of simplistic certainty virtually more than anything else.”
Not meaning to sound flippant here, but it’s a life and death situation:
1) The only thing absolutely certain about life is death.
2) The rest of life is wildly uncertain.
The faculty of human consciousness allows comprehension of these two “facts of life,” yet as simple as they are, they’re paradoxically incomprehensible to most people.
It would not be surprising if a basic craving for simplistic certainty in resolving the above paradox evolved concurrently with or in response to the dawn of human consciousness. All the world’s religious doctrines and mythologies were born to satisfy this “craving.” Scientific study arose to answer this craving. Human artistic expression is probably the only intellectual function which revels in complexity and untrammeled imagination, and enjoys flirting with the dangers of uncertainties.
Volumes could be written (and probably have) on this subject, but, as is often the case in science, the most elegant explanation is usually the most simple one…..and that brings us back full circle back to your initial observation ;>) (wink and a smile)
I think scientific types are better able to live with ambiguity.
Thank you, KN.
You could call me a republican woman who does not want SP in the white house or any position of power. Of course I changed my voter registration to undeclared the week after she was picked — I decided that a party that had gone that far off the rails was not worthy of my support, and I did not want to be associated with it any longer.
I don’t really think whether or not republican women support her is the real issue. I think the real issue is wth happened to the republican party in its entirety, men and women, and why would anyone who looked into her actions as governor or mayor/ceo of wasilla think that she is a republican? She does not embody true republican political values. I really resent the anti-abortion (pro-life is NOT what they are about, given their support of the death penalty, and their refusal to help people after they leave the womb) co-opting by the republican party. I consider the democrats to be much more pro-life (social issues, anti-war, environment, against the death penalty, etc).
You’ve and others like you make a very good point by stating Taht the right wing nuts are for the death penalty, refuse to help women after birth, but still claim abortion is murder. If Palin and others like her, could give us a definition of “life” without giving us their opinion of when it beings as their definition, I might agree with them, but they never do.
Not to change the subject, but this week I finally realize that the Wasillia hillbilly families of Johnson and Palin is nothing more than a modern day Hatfield and McCoy family battle. Bristol claims she is not pregnant and she may not be, but the rush of those two into marriage after their recent verbal battles, is somewhat confusing for me. I did enjoy Sarah’s so called written reaction to the news, you could easily read between the lines the she was not happy about it. I do hope it comes out in the news that Levi is shacking up with her so others will see the real Bristol and how well she upholds abstinence. Maybe then we will can seriously talk about sex education and stop pretending it doesn’t occur, or that abstinence is all you need to know.
There is so much political rhetoric out there. I know a ton of wonderful Republicans. How often do we really say, what Political group are you? I think people have a wide range of views on different areas. That does not make them just a Dem or Republican. I don’t mind that Palin is pro-life. I just think when we stop to understand each other without logical debate, we forget to respect all women and the lives they live. I am bothered by her fake stance of being one way and then her commentary seems to suggest something else. I do not see her offering real solutions. It is more like watching a young woman who is defensive anytime someone disagrees with her. Stand up and be proud, and use your intellect. Debate with well thought out ideas and solutions for the problem our country faces. She has so many opportunities but seems to miss them all and I don’t think she can learn to be insightful. I don’t see her as a voice for the masses. And I wonder with a President Palin who will fit into her ideology when making money seems to priority? I think she will come out and study hard and try, but I think she will fall terribly short. I find several of my Republican friends liking her sound bites and the fact that she can raise money because they and she portrays to have conservative views, but they think of her as an entertainer like Glenn Beck. So, she is going to have an up hill battle with some folks.
Who isn’t “pro-life” besides Al Queda?
I think a more accurate description would be “anti-abortion.”
I don’t think *anyone* is *pro*-abortion; to put the discussion into “pro-/anti-abortion” and/or “pro-/anti-life” does both ‘sides’ a great disservice…and gives both ‘sides’ an insurmountable disadvantage.
Neither ‘side’ can get a fair hearing with those labels. Depending on which ‘label’ you adopt as your own, and/or which label you have projected on you, you’re inevitably ‘damned if you do; damned if you don’t.’ (i.e. ~ If you identify as “pro-life”, reconcilliation with issues such as the death penalty, war, objection to universal health care, and the like, becomes problematic. Sooner or later, those issues are brought up and held against you.)
Anti-abortion automatically assigns the other ‘side’ as *for* abortions. (i.e. ~ One might not *personally* –as far as their experience goes– be inclined to entertain the idea of having an abortion, but still be aware that their circumstances (so far) and experiences (so far) might not be the same an someone else’s. For them, *personally*, abortion would probably *not* ever be an ‘option’.) Pro-life automatically assigns the other side as *against* life. Neither is an accurate depiction of those who hold the *other* ‘side’s’ views.
I think we should…we must!…frame any debate on the issue in *accurate* terms: There are those who are anti-choice (those who would ban –in most, if not all, cases– abortion in this nation) and there are those who are pro-choice (those who see the Constitutionally-supported and -legal necessity/imperative of a woman’s *right* to have complete say over what happens to, and with, *her* body.)
That those who would deny a woman control over her body, have co-opted the debate by using *their* teminology (pro-life and anti-abortion), is no reason for that terminology to continue to be used in discussing the highly contentious issue. As far as I can tell, there’s no one who is set-always-in-stone *for/pro*-life OR *anti/against*-life any more than there’s anyone who is set-always-in-stone *for/pro*-abortions OR *anti/against*-abortion. There are, however, people who are anti-choice and those who are pro-choice. Leastwise, that’s the way I see it. beth.
Beth,
You did a good job of airing the issues so to speak and that is commendable. I largely agree with what you say.
To my silly mind the argument is pretty simple. First of all the only humans who have a dog in the game are women. Since men don’t give birth. So the only people empowered to choose about giving birth versus terminating an unwanted pregnancy should be the individual women confronted with that choice. As far as I am concerned the rest of us should just butt out.
Then there is the obvious and blatent contradiction of those who seemingly advocate for autonomy from government intrusion screeming for government to scrutinize women for fecundity.
To any reasoning person the thing is a joke, a travesty, a farce. But there are plenty of fools apparently who will accept that kind of twisted logic because, well – I don’t know why they would, but I do know that they do.
Thanks for articulating what has been on my mind about the rhetorical misuse of that term in that particular debate. I have been pro-choice since before 4th grade when I had a debate with a classmate who went on to become a Catholic priest. I’m $P’s age, so it’s been a long time that I’ve thought I should have the final say on the subject of my own body.
You have said it very well. We need to make sure that we do not let anyone get away with claiming that they are pro-life when in fact they are just anti-choice.
I believe that language does matter. Most men have never really contemplated the issue of not having a “choice” when it comes to what will or will not happen to their bodies.
I don’t usually respond in these threads but Rene brings up an interesting point here that I would like to expand upon. I have been away from the US for a very long time with only very brief vists back home but I have sensed a deepening polarization from what was already quite polarized back in the 90s.
I can’t really describe myself politically because I am not at all dogmatic, every issue is worthy of considered evaluation and most of them are not clearly enough one thing of another to say you can 100% get behind it or oppose it. Add to that the further complication that it is now necessary to independently verify what is true and what is not and you have a situation where objective independent thought is a burdensome and risky business.
I can’t really offer any solutions or answers but I would like to make a few observations. I don’t have much respect for people who simply adopt whatever opinion happens to be the party line and so there are a lot of people that I write off politically because they obviously have not really thought about their position or their allegiances to their positions. That is just intellectually lazy and not very good citizenship either. These types appear on both sides of the political scale. There is yet another type of person that appears to be willfully disengaged from the whole process, they do not want to get involved in the debate and some of them do not even want to participate in the decision process. And then there are the few, the very few who base their whole existence on the process and are so caught up in it that they can be induced to take actions against their own best interests out of their zeal to further some stance that if they examined it closely they would find is really irrational if not plain crazy.
Frankly, all I can really say at this stage, having lived over 60 years through many things that could have been otherwise, is that the system is actually quite broken and dysfunctional. I am not so much dissapointed in my government or country as I am in my fellow citizens for a large number of reasons.
I am coming to the point of view, though I may never actually reach it, I am not sure, that the one paramount responsibility of citizenship is participation with goodwill.
I won’t try to make this into some kind of utiopian dissertation but I guess a valid question to ask is, as suggested in more than one place above, why are there distinctions in the degree to which life is “precious”? Why is personal autonomy such a wonderful thing but inapplicable to that greater than half of the population who happen to be burdened with the dangerous and life changing task of actually giving birth? Is there really such a thing as the “right” to reproduce and is it unlimited? And I guess most important of all, why is what we did in the past due any particular status or deference when what we know in the present is so much more extensive, encompassing, inclusive and precise? I can’t explain why, but human being appear to crave a kind of simplistic certainty virtually more than anything else. It is truly sad if that is so because we are all so superbly equipped to weigh and balance complex things.
There is a profound distinction between coming to a concensus among diverse minds, and appealing to the lowest common denominator to the exclusion of everything else.
We as individuals, pairs, families, and even larger communities are always subjected to influences that are carefully formulated to induce us to act in a certain way. We owe it to ourselves to assure that we are able to confront this onslaught of influences in a manner that allows us to make reasoned and informed choices. Yet that most fundamental human right is still a struggle.
Since this is an open thread I will leave it with an update on the status of the Macondo 252 well head in the GoM. The integrity test has been extended another 24 hours and might well be extended again. Other factors not discussed may be in play here such as assuring that the collection capacity in place is sufficient to capture all the oil that flows from the well when it is reopened. The well must be reopened in order to kill it effectively particularly because the results of the integrity testing have been somewhat ambiguous. Secondly it is important to reopen the well to preserve the capacity to shut it in. The test will have run for 72 hours some time tomorrow. That is sufficient time for even the largest hurricane to pass over the well site so it confirms that in an emergency of that sort, the well can be secured and the ships on station can navigate to weather the storm. For those who followed my line and are now reading at the oil drum, there are still a lot of wild speculations being offered up so keep your salt shaker handy.
Since I am on a poor connection I can’t do any of this video stuff so I have no idea what the Wilde quote was from Tigerwine’s post but one my favorites is:
“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.”
Thanks KN
Krubozumo Nyankoye…the Wilde quote at the end of the video is “For one moment our lives met, our souls touched.” It was appropriate to the video . The quote you cite is even better.
I always enjoy reading your posts. Your reflections on reproductive rights were spot on. Your statement,
“Why is personal autonomy such a wonderful thing but inapplicable to that greater than half of the population who happen to be burdened with the dangerous and life changing task of actually giving birth? Is there really such a thing as the “right” to reproduce and is it unlimited?” says it perfectly for me.
Thanks for your insights and wonderful contributions.
I wholeheartedly agree with your thanks to KN and his thoughtful posts.
I went to watch the video so I could come back and let KN know what the quote was, but the font was too tiny to read on the phone. The rest of the video was of people in a town in Italy offering free hugs, set to a woman with a beautiful voice like kd lang singing Hallelujah.
This reminded me of a very powerful 10-minute speech by a massage therapist who spoke in front of a group I belonged to the mid to late 80s. She’d never given a speech before and was nervous, but hers was the only one I remember (including my own!). She had all of us get up and hug the person on our one side then the other. Everyone felt better after the first one, then she had us not pat the next person and instead slowly rub the persons back. That was even better than just the hug or hug and pat on the back.
There a little kids that live near my parents, and one day when I went to visit, the 4 YO next door came running to hug me before I had my first foot on the ground, getting out of the car. I get him to give me a hug every time I see him now. (You can never have enough hugs, unless you are married to Mel Gibson, imo.)
KN, enjoy your writings.
Thoughtful and clear minded.
Krubozumo: “I can’t explain why, but human beings appear to crave a kind of simplistic certainty virtually more than anything else.”
Not meaning to sound flippant here, but it’s a life and death situation:
1) The only thing absolutely certain about life is death.
2) The rest of life is wildly uncertain.
The faculty of human consciousness allows comprehension of these two “facts of life,” yet as simple as they are, they’re paradoxically incomprehensible to most people.
It would not be surprising if a basic craving for simplistic certainty in resolving the above paradox evolved concurrently with or in response to the dawn of human consciousness. All the world’s religious doctrines and mythologies were born to satisfy this “craving.” Scientific study arose to answer this craving. Human artistic expression is probably the only intellectual function which revels in complexity and untrammeled imagination, and enjoys flirting with the dangers of uncertainties.
Volumes could be written (and probably have) on this subject, but, as is often the case in science, the most elegant explanation is usually the most simple one…..and that brings us back full circle back to your initial observation ;>) (wink and a smile)
I think scientific types are better able to live with ambiguity.
Thank you, KN.
Would love to join in on the website….love seeing all the posts from a great bunch of people.
Welcome Judith! Great to have you here and looking forward to seeing your comments.
Hi ya, Judith! Isn’t this a wonderful place to read and learn?
Judith, welcome. Try out the forum, and maybe post something there sometime. Some of us meet up in chat, too (www.chat.mibbit.com, choose a nickname & type in #themudflats as your destination), usually late at night.
Hi, Judith…I think it’s lovely..mostly I just read the witty things and some snarky stuff but wisdom abounds here!
🙂 Dive in!
Would love to join in on the website….love seeing all the posts from a great bunch of people.
Welcome Judith! Great to have you here and looking forward to seeing your comments.
Hi ya, Judith! Isn’t this a wonderful place to read and learn?
Judith, welcome. Try out the forum, and maybe post something there sometime. Some of us meet up in chat, too (www.chat.mibbit.com, choose a nickname & type in #themudflats as your destination), usually late at night.
Hi, Judith…I think it’s lovely..mostly I just read the witty things and some snarky stuff but wisdom abounds here!
🙂 Dive in!
is this the correct way to fill out
is this the correct way to fill out
AKM,
Why should you end this series? You should compile them into a slide show and send it out to your netroots buddies to get the word out. The MSM wants to keep that dimwit and her family in the news, but doesn’t publicize her real record of utter failure in AK.
Just a suggestion from a reader who is sick and tired of this utter and complete fraud.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/15/fashion/15French.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=general
“And even the average Frenchwoman — say, shopping along the Rue du Faubourg St.-Honoré or enjoying a leisurely lunch on the Left Bank, or strolling through the Luxembourg Gardens — seems to defy the notion that, as one grows older, you either have to disguise that process with Botox, eye-lifts, lip plumpers and all sorts of procedures that convey a desperate “youthful” look, or else just give up altogether and let the ravages of time take their toll.”
They forgot fake boobs….for our AK fake boob.
You are so right. Our daughter is coming back from spending weeks in Paris. She was struck with the natural grace with which women there seemed to accept the aging process. They, of course, have a great sense of personal style, do pamper themselves with good food and skin creams, but they do not try too hard to be younger, for they realize they have something more to offer than just youth.
My favorite line in the article you linked to was the following
Françoise Sagan once wrote, “There is a certain age when a woman must be beautiful to be loved, and then there comes a time when she must be loved to be beautiful.”
I almost feel sorry for Sarah because I feel as if no one in her immediate family really loves her. If they did, you’d see it in her face and she’d be more relaxed. I sense she is clinging to her superficial image of beauty because she has no sense of being loved, therefore beautiful, within.
If there was ever any doubt I think the fact that those two star crossed lovers were afraid to tell the Sow about the engagement says it all about her relationship with the kids.
Yup.
And Sarah keeping her pregnancy a secret from them as well.
And why she felt the need to keep it secret even more so.
Notice Track has escaped from the family circle, and seems willing to stand out of her lime light.
Now Bristol.
Maybe she is unlovable….I feel sorry for her kids…$arah’s proud to pass on those superficial family values…when her kids realize, truly realize they’ve been shafted on the mom end of things….that will be a bitter day! Or…perhaps the apple didn’t fall too far from the ole rotten apple tree, what with Bristol and Levi doing a reality show …! Someone please tell me I imagined that…and that it’s not true..!
You have to be able to love in order to be loved. She’s incapable of loving anyone other than herself.
AKM,
Why should you end this series? You should compile them into a slide show and send it out to your netroots buddies to get the word out. The MSM wants to keep that dimwit and her family in the news, but doesn’t publicize her real record of utter failure in AK.
Just a suggestion from a reader who is sick and tired of this utter and complete fraud.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/15/fashion/15French.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=general
“And even the average Frenchwoman — say, shopping along the Rue du Faubourg St.-Honoré or enjoying a leisurely lunch on the Left Bank, or strolling through the Luxembourg Gardens — seems to defy the notion that, as one grows older, you either have to disguise that process with Botox, eye-lifts, lip plumpers and all sorts of procedures that convey a desperate “youthful” look, or else just give up altogether and let the ravages of time take their toll.”
They forgot fake boobs….for our AK fake boob.
You are so right. Our daughter is coming back from spending weeks in Paris. She was struck with the natural grace with which women there seemed to accept the aging process. They, of course, have a great sense of personal style, do pamper themselves with good food and skin creams, but they do not try too hard to be younger, for they realize they have something more to offer than just youth.
My favorite line in the article you linked to was the following
Françoise Sagan once wrote, “There is a certain age when a woman must be beautiful to be loved, and then there comes a time when she must be loved to be beautiful.”
I almost feel sorry for Sarah because I feel as if no one in her immediate family really loves her. If they did, you’d see it in her face and she’d be more relaxed. I sense she is clinging to her superficial image of beauty because she has no sense of being loved, therefore beautiful, within.
If there was ever any doubt I think the fact that those two star crossed lovers were afraid to tell the Sow about the engagement says it all about her relationship with the kids.
Yup.
And Sarah keeping her pregnancy a secret from them as well.
And why she felt the need to keep it secret even more so.
Notice Track has escaped from the family circle, and seems willing to stand out of her lime light.
Now Bristol.
Maybe she is unlovable….I feel sorry for her kids…$arah’s proud to pass on those superficial family values…when her kids realize, truly realize they’ve been shafted on the mom end of things….that will be a bitter day! Or…perhaps the apple didn’t fall too far from the ole rotten apple tree, what with Bristol and Levi doing a reality show …! Someone please tell me I imagined that…and that it’s not true..!
You have to be able to love in order to be loved. She’s incapable of loving anyone other than herself.
I hope all of you check out this youtube video because I’m in it, okay my avatar is, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fJrLIOTb-c
I’m the one wearing the crown, it’s called “Girl Fight”. It was made by my friend Larky, she makes movies on Second Life. It’s a clip from a longer movie she is in the process of finishing. Her character and my character get into a fight because my character was up the stream washing her hair. Honestly I think it was because my character has a nicer butt. hahahaha.
I sure hope you enjoy the video, we were laughing so hard making it. Larky filmed for 30 minutes and then edited it down to what you will see. It’s just over 2 minutes.
Larkworthy Antfarm has made several other movies all on Second Life. She’s a very talented film maker.
hey Zyggie i checked out the cat fight. really cool. i downloaded second sight a while ago but am not any good at it. it is an amazing site and i wondered if any pups were into it. now i know. you are a real cool kitty and your avatar is great.
I hope all of you check out this youtube video because I’m in it, okay my avatar is, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fJrLIOTb-c
I’m the one wearing the crown, it’s called “Girl Fight”. It was made by my friend Larky, she makes movies on Second Life. It’s a clip from a longer movie she is in the process of finishing. Her character and my character get into a fight because my character was up the stream washing her hair. Honestly I think it was because my character has a nicer butt. hahahaha.
I sure hope you enjoy the video, we were laughing so hard making it. Larky filmed for 30 minutes and then edited it down to what you will see. It’s just over 2 minutes.
Larkworthy Antfarm has made several other movies all on Second Life. She’s a very talented film maker.
hey Zyggie i checked out the cat fight. really cool. i downloaded second sight a while ago but am not any good at it. it is an amazing site and i wondered if any pups were into it. now i know. you are a real cool kitty and your avatar is great.
Perhaps this should not end until we are safe from the threat of Palinism.
Perhaps this should not end until we are safe from the threat of Palinism.
This sign warms my heart! I hope more Republicans and Conservatives, especially conservative Christians cotton onto her fraud. She is the last person anyone should support for any office!
Aussie gal, once they realize that Trig is a prop (we still don’t know who his real mother is) that she drags out at her convenience, not the perfect gift from God she declares him to be, they’ll desert her in droves.
I always wondered if the zeal with which the cop ex-brother-in-law was pursued by $weettooth was a clue to the babe’s real mum.
Now, there’s a thought worth pursuing.
I think this little sweet baby is hers for what that is worth. If we are looking for a reasons to confirm that she most likely lies, then we need to just look at most Politicians. And I think it would be easy to prove at some point they do. I think these conspiracies are just as silly and time and energy wasting as the “birthers” and do nothing but lessen the cause of women who disagree with Palin on her policies. We all have a right to believe what we want, but I am not buying it. I wish her children well and strongly believe that we need to hold politicians feet to the fire, but attacking their kids is flat out wrong. She is not our President and will never be. And those children are not running for office any time soon.
Diane, no one is attacking Sarah’s children. No one – well, except maybe for Bristol who is now an adult and is putting herself in the limelight and is therefore fair game.
I disagree deeply with your contention that we should look away from the evidence that Sarah’s
“wild ride” from Texas was the culmination of a pregnancy. You should realize that her reputation with the pro-life, right wingers is built upon that lie. It is the foundation of her popularity (other than her fading looks). She is not, and never has been, a good mother to a disabled child or to her other children. They are her props. She puts them out in the public unlike other politicians.
No one, I repeat, no one is attacking her children. To go after her lies is an entirely different thing. Perhaps you might want to do a little more research on the wild ride and discuss it with any medical people you know and trust. Sarah could, at any time, put this whole thing to rest by producing a birth certificate or full medical records – just like other politicians. But she refuses to do so. That one-page summary the night before the election was not enough by a long shot.
Sarah Palin is a liar on all levels, but the pregnancy that wasn’t is the foundational lie that brought her to national attention and therefore cannot be ignored. It has nothing to do with the child – only the lying mother.
Thank you for saying this. Diane, her “street cred” with the antiabortion crowd is built on a LIE. We don’t know what the truth is, and it’s very doubtful we’ll ever get it from the Mother of Lies.
Agreed, and agree that her children should not be the focus, but the lies should be. I would actually have to give her some credit for helping her sister, if that turned out to be the case.
Do agree though, Sunflower. Palin has pretty obviously put her children at least second to her political ambitions for several years.
Mama Grizzly, indeed … when apparently the Mama part comes second.
That being said, I’ve researched everything I could find about her (including Mudflats and all the ADN comments on her) … read all the books (even hers, which is just more of her flawed personality blaming everyone and anyone but herself for everything) … and still waiting anxiously for the one that now won’t be published until … um … February?
Oh, thank you, thank you, Diane. There are enough serious things wrong with Palin to fill several books … but the silly stuff helps keep those who support her able to justify their ‘poor Palin keeps getting beat up’ to the point that they can’t or won’t accept or believe her serious flaws … while making those of us who dislike the idea of Palin in any public office seem like anti-Republican or anti-woman or … .
Yes, same as the ‘birthers’ … For people to have credence, believability, they need to concentrate on the things that matter, that are actually true and provable.
I agree. Everything I’ve seen on this has been speculation. Unless someone can prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt, it is best to leave it alone. It does sound very much like the “birthers,” or just plain malicious gossip, it gets her sympathy, and has people tuning out documented facts about her they need to hear. There are plenty of examples to prove she is not conservative, is unethical, is lacking in knowledge and judgement, and unfit for any public office. We need to stay classy or we end up helping the opposition.
This sign warms my heart! I hope more Republicans and Conservatives, especially conservative Christians cotton onto her fraud. She is the last person anyone should support for any office!
Aussie gal, once they realize that Trig is a prop (we still don’t know who his real mother is) that she drags out at her convenience, not the perfect gift from God she declares him to be, they’ll desert her in droves.
I always wondered if the zeal with which the cop ex-brother-in-law was pursued by $weettooth was a clue to the babe’s real mum.
Now, there’s a thought worth pursuing.
I think this little sweet baby is hers for what that is worth. If we are looking for a reasons to confirm that she most likely lies, then we need to just look at most Politicians. And I think it would be easy to prove at some point they do. I think these conspiracies are just as silly and time and energy wasting as the “birthers” and do nothing but lessen the cause of women who disagree with Palin on her policies. We all have a right to believe what we want, but I am not buying it. I wish her children well and strongly believe that we need to hold politicians feet to the fire, but attacking their kids is flat out wrong. She is not our President and will never be. And those children are not running for office any time soon.
Diane, no one is attacking Sarah’s children. No one – well, except maybe for Bristol who is now an adult and is putting herself in the limelight and is therefore fair game.
I disagree deeply with your contention that we should look away from the evidence that Sarah’s
“wild ride” from Texas was the culmination of a pregnancy. You should realize that her reputation with the pro-life, right wingers is built upon that lie. It is the foundation of her popularity (other than her fading looks). She is not, and never has been, a good mother to a disabled child or to her other children. They are her props. She puts them out in the public unlike other politicians.
No one, I repeat, no one is attacking her children. To go after her lies is an entirely different thing. Perhaps you might want to do a little more research on the wild ride and discuss it with any medical people you know and trust. Sarah could, at any time, put this whole thing to rest by producing a birth certificate or full medical records – just like other politicians. But she refuses to do so. That one-page summary the night before the election was not enough by a long shot.
Sarah Palin is a liar on all levels, but the pregnancy that wasn’t is the foundational lie that brought her to national attention and therefore cannot be ignored. It has nothing to do with the child – only the lying mother.
Thank you for saying this. Diane, her “street cred” with the antiabortion crowd is built on a LIE. We don’t know what the truth is, and it’s very doubtful we’ll ever get it from the Mother of Lies.
Agreed, and agree that her children should not be the focus, but the lies should be. I would actually have to give her some credit for helping her sister, if that turned out to be the case.
Do agree though, Sunflower. Palin has pretty obviously put her children at least second to her political ambitions for several years.
Mama Grizzly, indeed … when apparently the Mama part comes second.
That being said, I’ve researched everything I could find about her (including Mudflats and all the ADN comments on her) … read all the books (even hers, which is just more of her flawed personality blaming everyone and anyone but herself for everything) … and still waiting anxiously for the one that now won’t be published until … um … February?
Oh, thank you, thank you, Diane. There are enough serious things wrong with Palin to fill several books … but the silly stuff helps keep those who support her able to justify their ‘poor Palin keeps getting beat up’ to the point that they can’t or won’t accept or believe her serious flaws … while making those of us who dislike the idea of Palin in any public office seem like anti-Republican or anti-woman or … .
Yes, same as the ‘birthers’ … For people to have credence, believability, they need to concentrate on the things that matter, that are actually true and provable.
I agree. Everything I’ve seen on this has been speculation. Unless someone can prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt, it is best to leave it alone. It does sound very much like the “birthers,” or just plain malicious gossip, it gets her sympathy, and has people tuning out documented facts about her they need to hear. There are plenty of examples to prove she is not conservative, is unethical, is lacking in knowledge and judgement, and unfit for any public office. We need to stay classy or we end up helping the opposition.