FBI Tapes Reveal Hatching of 2-4-1 Militia Strategy

First of all, if you are reading this in real time, you need to know I’m terribly behind. But my purpose in this coverage is not to be first, but to be able to provide details that you won’t be able to find elsewhere, so please forgive my lag time if you are reading this as the trial is happening.

We rejoin FBI informant JR Olson on the stand. He is telling of the day that he and defendant Lonnie Vernon got back to Fairbanks from attending a militia conference in Anchorage. Olson and Vernon were sent by Alaska Peacemakers Militia leader Schaeffer Cox to purchase grenades and other munitions from Bill Fulton, owner of the Drop Zone military surplus store in Anchorage, also an FBI informant.

Olson went to meet Cox to debrief him about the weekend’s events. Olson thought he was making a recording of the conversation. He turned on the recording device, he said, but it was discovered after the investigation was over that the recording device was already full and none of this particular conversation was recorded. Since no recordings were available, Olson recounted the event to federal prosecutor Steve Skrocki.

“They were having a superbowl party, so I met with him at friend’s house, just to let him know what we discussed at the meeting – about the grenades and fuses he wanted us to get. He was asking if we were able to get them, and details about the fuses, who we could get the fuses from. Fulton didn’t have any fuses, but we could get them through Aaron Bennett (of the Far North Tactical store in Fairbanks). I let him know that my source in Anchorage, the guy I told them about, could get us c4. He was interested. He asked some details about the guy, if I met with him. He asked, ‘Were you able to meet his family? If the agent is undercover, they won’t let you see their wife and kids.’ I told him that I didn’t see them then, but I’d seen them in the past so there was no danger of him being an agent.”

Of course, we’ve learned from previous testimony that no such “source” really existed. Olson, at the direction of the FBI, invented the source for the purposes of the mission.

“Our conversation was interrupted. We were in the garage. There was a bunch of people in the house. Marti (Cox’s wife) came into the garage, saying his cell phone had been blowing up. One of the Assembly Post guys was trying to get a hold of him. She handed him the phone. The guy said the FBI was looking for him earlier in the day in a restaurant. He was freaked out about it. Schaeffer was telling the guy on the phone that he’ll figure out a way to get him to safety. Then we had a conversation about how to get this guy out of Washington and to Alaska. Schaeffer said he knew someone with a plane. If he could get to Montana he’d be safe. Les Zerbe had the airplane. I don’t remember the name of the guy on the phone.”

“At some point, did you leave the party?” asked Skrocki, which made me smile. I imagined Olson saying, “No.” Just for fun.

“Yes, my wife had dropped me off, so I rode back to Schaeffer’s house with him in his blue Jeep. He said he needed to get to his office to figure out how to get this guy to safety.

“So, we went back into his bedroom. There’s a little nook where there’s a desk, a bookshelf, or filing cabinet.  He called him back up, and had another phone conversation with the guy in Washington. There was more discussion along the lines of planning to get him out of there.  I believe they prayed afterwards. I don’t recall what kind of prayer it was.

“He talked some more about C4. He said he had a guy that could make it for him – some guy on base. A guy who had a mowing business with connections on base could make the C4. We spent about a half hour up in his office. Then my wife picked me up and I met with Agent Sutherland for a debrief.”

Then the prosecution showed a series of text messages about a meeting at the schoolbus home of Ken Thesing, a militia member whom the prosecution has previously described as “definitely a co-conspirator” but who has not been charged with anything in this trial. Olson went on to describe the meeting.

“Now I was part of the command staff. This was a change. I went to a meeting at Mr. Thesing’s bus on the 12^th. He lived in a converted school bus. When I got there, it was myself, Coleman Barney, Ken Thesing and Schaeffer Cox. We went inside. We had to take our phones and shut them off, take the batteries out, and left under the couch cushions. Mine was in the truck, but anyone who had a phone did this.

~What Ken Thesing’s bus looks like in my mind.

“It was about the court date coming up in a couple days, so we were going to plan for what we were going to do about Schaeffer not showing up for his trial. It lasted about 45 minutes to an hour and a half.”

Another audio recording is played. It is the conversation in the bus. Here are highlights of it.

COX:  …so understanding that, and we looked in there and, sure enough, there we are, power of attorney. The judge has a power of attorney, and the Court Clerk is probably more sinister than the judge. Martin Guerrero. (…)

OLSON: And he’s the bad guy, huh?

COX: Yeah; and Ron Woods too. They need to dangle together like a windchime.

OLSON: Side by side.

Skrocki questions Olson. He asks him about Ron Woods and Marvin Guerrero and identifies Woods as some kind of court administrator for the Alaska Court system in Fairbanks, and Guerrero as also working for the court system.

“And he said that they need to dangle together like a wind chime?” Skrocki asked.

“Yes, and he moved his fingers back and forth like a wind chime would dingle dangle.” He holds his hand up, bent over at the wrist and wiggles his downward pointing fingers. The jury is looking fairly creeped out.

“Who led meeting?”

“Schaeffer.”

“Did anyone express opposition?”

“No.”

“Anyone say it was a bad idea?”

“No, not at all.”

“Is this the conversation where 2 for 1 is first mentioned?”

“This is the first time.”

“Who first talks about the 2 for 1?”

“Schaeffer said it’s an Israeli defense strategy, something the Israeli army uses.”

COX: Yeah. All right, so what I did, and you’ve got to understand this, and I want you guys to have access to this and have this in a safe place in case I get killed or something, this is a revocation of powers of attorney.

THESING: First of all, there’s going to be about 50 or so bodies hit the dirt before that ever happens.

COX: Good.

OLSON: Before you ever die; yeah. Unless they have the place all surrounded, you know, they’ve got 30 guys up there then —

COX: They’re generally pretty good at that. I don’t know, which brings me to another thing. We can hide out or we can run, or the last thing on this — on this list here is operation 141, which is one for one, and that is the Israeli defense strategy which is — I’m not going to lock my doors. So you can come in and you can kill me and you can haul me off. I’m there for grabs, but you just know what it costs.

OLSON: Yeah.

COX: And that’s the only defense. I think that’s a very, very, very effective defense; that’s what the 141 is, and that’s just our code word. Is 141.

OLSON: 141.

COX: 141.

OLSON: 141; yeah.

THESING: Yeah, 141.

COX: 141.

(They are all saying “one forty one” like an incantation. Soon 141 becomes 241, and we learn that everyone in the bus really likes saying it as well. They repeat it over and over in its various forms – two four one, two for one, two forty one… And it also strikes me how often Cox asks the others for their opinion or feedback about the plan.)

THESING: But it means ‘one for one’. So whatever — if one of us — it’s only a one to one ratio though?


COX: Hell, let’s make it 241.


OLSON: Or 541! (laughter)


Um. What’s up with the over-zealous FBI informant upping the ante on the retribution? Skrocki even had to ask him about why he had suggested that.

“I needed to not act like I was a bump on the log. I wanted to fit in and act like I was part of ‘em. So there were a few times where I would get into it a little too much, and agent Sutherland told me I needed to rein it in, and just let it happen. This was one of those times where wanting to fit in and not blow my cover, I offered a 5 for 1.”

“But, everyone is participating, and contributing?”

“Yes.”

COX: Change it – go 341 … you want to put a price tag you can collect, you know. Okay. So 241 would be the most and then hopefully the price is so high that they leave people on the shelf. And this is horrifying. Like — this is like the most scary thing for me to talk about.


OLSON: Oh, it is.


COX: Because it’s… you know?
 And at the same time, like… I feel
really bad and presumptuous, but like it’s my family. It’s like the first one and  I’m the one that might need protection. I wish it was somebody else.


OLSON: So we’re just going to have to blaze the trail, you know, someone has to blaze the trail.


COX: Which I don’t mind doing but I just wish I was the one offering instead of having, you know…

OLSON: Yeah.


COX: … and they took the Writ of Assistance to the Troopers to come get Seth from me and Marti –
the troopers said no, we don’t have the man power to do it.


OLSON: Oh, really?


COX: And they said what are you talking about? It’s a toddler and a young couple. And they were like, oh, that part’s no problem. And they said but then
you see, there would be counterattacks from the militia and we’re just in no way prepared to handle that so you’re on your own with that one. See they presumed–


OLSON: Yeah.


COX: — operation 241.


OLSON: Yeah.


THESING: Yeah.


OLSON: And that gets back to what you were talking about the other day where you’re weak you present yourself as strong.

COX: Yes.


Here they begin a discussion about the number of militia members they could assemble. Reports from Cox claimed 3500, and that was mentioned in opening statements. But as is becoming clear, that number is “tweaked” from the reality of how many could be assembled on short notice. Here Olson and Cox talk about that and it seems they are coming up with the number based on who has ever attended meetings.

OLSON: …still in that 3,500 men number out there…so that has spooked it …

COX: …and there’s some truth to that.


OLSON: Oh, yeah; you bet there’s truth to that.


COX: — with the — with the numbers that we have had – all of those meetings and everything like that.


OLSON: Yeah.


COX: — maybe there’s some truth to that. Now, 3,500 that we can mobilize in five minutes?


OLSON: Not there, but you know, we don’t need 3,500 that quick.


COX: — because it’s war.


OLSON: Yeah.


Skrocki clarified after this segment of audio concluded. “There was discussion about a 3500 man militia. Based on your exposure did you see anything close to 3500 members?”

“No.”

“How about a hundred?”

“No.”

“Mr. Cox told you in this conversation that you can’t get that number quickly. But they could get some guys because it’s war?”

“Yes.”

COX: So anyway, I want to get you guys’ thoughts on operation 241. And we can talk about that on the phone, you know, as operation 241.


THESING: Okay; 241, a two for one ratio.


OLSON: 241.


COX: But don’t say that on the phone.
 But — but operation 241  — I think that’s our only defense that is feasible because we don’t have enough guards or man power to post guards at everybody’s house.


OLSON: 24/7, yeah.


COX: … and then we’re living under lock and key and in fear and everything like that.
  I think it’s much better to just make it very clear to them that you can do it… and just let everybody know already. But man, if they ever deliver. They might have all of operation 241 in line, too, you know. 

OLSON: Oh, you know they do.


COX: …but anyway, cops are very vindictive…

OLSON: Oh, they love it, yeah. Oh, yeah.


Wow. (Irony meter.)

COX: Anyway, what are your guys’ thoughts on 241? I really wanted your feedback. I wanted to see your (…) and timing, and situation, and where we’re at because this is — this is not for the lightweight stuff.


THESING: In what sense, what do you mean?


COX: I don’t know. I just want your thoughts. I’ve done a lot of talking and you’ve just listened.

THESING: Well, we’ve just got to be able to do it. And it’s better to prevent it from actually happening to begin with.  I think we ought to talk about what’s going to happen with you because you’re the first guy that they’re going to try to assert their authority on. Hopefully they’ll wake up but I don’t know. I don’t really know.


OLSON: They’ve come too far at this point I think, and their pride’s going to get in the way.


(Irony again. Funny how it is so difficult for people to see themselves in others…)

THESING: Yeah.


OLSON: For them to back out now.


COX: “Schaeffer Cox gets arrested” is the only headline they’d need.

OLSON: That’s what they’d want.  I don’t think they want you dead. You know? I mean they want you dead but I don’t think from a PR standpoint they want you dead because now you’re a martyr.
 And do you know what kind of force that would solicit, just not from in state, but nationally? I mean look what happened at Waco or Ruby Ridge. All of these things in the past, and they pretty much stopped that. They pulled back from those assaults and they’ve gone. They’re taking guys out all of the
time but it’s more of a…

COX: Character assassination.


OLSON: Yeah. But now I think that’s coming from a federal level. Now what these state troopers got up their sleeve, they’re an arrogant bunch and I don’t know how much they’re working with the Feds on a deal like this, you know. Are they do you think or..?

Olson is asked to describe the interior of the bus.

“There are steps going up into the bus and as soon as you go walking back there’s a couch and a chair. I was squatting on the steps. Schaeffer was on the chair. Coleman was on the couch. Ken was at his desk chair. We were all within a few feet of each other.

“Schaeffer brings up 241 throughout the entire conversation. Even after the conversation moved someplace else, they’d venture off and he’d always bring it back saying I want your thoughts on 241.”

COX: So I have evidence that what the Feds do is they — they call in coach from the state judges –


OLSON: Yeah.


COX: — on how to — how to crucify and how to get get around things and the U.S. Marshals and stuff will come in and solicit the help of the locals.

OLSON: Okay.


COX: But that’s what happened. They tried to work their magic up here last summer and we just headed them down because they were scared.


OLSON: Yeah. But they didn’t know how — what the public perception was going to be with yours and Marti’s case. And now that they’ve kind of got I don’t know if it’s the majority of the public, but a lot of the public on their side so to speak, believing in the domestic violence lie.
 And so now that may embolden the troopers.


COX: Oh, yeah; it will. And that’s the first thing –

OLSON: You know, and — because — because they’ve got Michael Dukes and his fat ass and blabbing on
 the radio. You know, he’s bad mouthing you every chance he gets.


Michael Dukes is a radio talk show host in Fairbanks. Sounds like he would do well with a show in Anchorage as well, if what Mr. Olson says is true. He’d fit right in.

They go on for a while about how Dukes knows the truth, but is just trying to avoid harm to himself, showing himself to be “not a man of character” and only out for publicity.  (Like I was saying.) Dukes used to be a supporter of Cox, but the domestic violence charge had soured him and he’d done a turnaround.

COX: Yeah; and I think all of the troopers know it’s a lie because they knew there was no evidence.

OLSON: They’ve got to know. The troopers know every other case that they hack up and — and fabricate, you know, but it gets back to that blue line, you know, that’s what keeps them in power, that’s what keeps their union strong. So they’re not going to all of a sudden come out and say well, you know, this is wrong on Schaeffer’s case when if they admit to that then — then 90 percent of the rest of their cases are going to be made to look bad, you know.

COX: So anyways, on the — on the 241. So what do you guys think?

BARNEY: Now when you say that, does that mean in the event that they come in killing people or just come in and — and haul you down to jail or?

COX: I don’t know. That’s what we’ve got to talk about, you know. I mean if killed or captured is the rule of the terms, because it’s not arrested or executed, because that’s done under law.
You know, it’s banned law from the courtroom. So here’s my thoughts. It’s already to the point and I believe that it is absolutely morally allowable if they were to come and arrest Ken, for the three of us to go kick in the judge’s door and the troopers and arrest two of them. And because it’s war, it doesn’t even really have to be the ones that did it. 
Because it’s just — it’s war. This is not some sort of like Common Law… and all of that stuff; it’s — it’s a war. And it’s not just a war in fact, it’s a war declared by them, explicitly, without mincing any words, and so I think it’s absolutely morally allowable that if they arrested Ken or arrested me, to go in and arrest two of them.
  If they kill one of us, we go kill two of them. If they took one of our houses, we go burn two of their houses. And — and like John Locke says, it’s your duty to make it an ill bargain for those that would aggress you.
And we’ve just got to make it a bad bargain. Now what’s morally allowable and tactically advantageous, that’s what we’ve got to talk about.

OLSON: Mm-hmm.

COX: I mean I think I raise no question that I’m — would be well within my rights to go drill McConahy in the forehead, and any of these people that are propagating this because they’re posing a huge threat to my life and my family.

OLSON: Freedom…

COX: and everything.

OLSON: — morals and everything.

Skrocki asks Olson what Cox had meant by “drilling McConahy in the forehead.”

“To shoot him in the head,” Olson said. He was the judege  in the state court system overseeing Schaeffer’s case.”

“What was the reaction of the rest of the men to that statement?”

“Everyone was in agreement and nodding. No one said anything against it. It was all nodding and  – yeah. Everyone was in agreement.”

Back to the tape

COX: You know, I mean just as much as some guy breaking into my house in the middle of the night with a shotgun, you know.
I’ve got the same moral allowance to shoot them. But then long suffering and a peaceful man, and not wanting to deal — just wanting to be friends with everybody, you know, and — and thinking that they’re going to hopefully bleed out under the consequences of their own actions. I want to avoid that as long as we can.
 (…)

OLSON: Well, morally I see it. I have no problem with it. You know, if they want to play this kind of war, then I have no problem playing their game with them so to speak; playing their war with them. So now who would we go for? Say, just hypothetically, they come and get you, they come and arrest you. They pick you up on your way to Fred Meyer. They grab you – who do we go after then? Do we just go randomly grab two troopers? Go randomly grab a judge, you know, how do we — how do we determine who we go for on the two for one?

COX: Now keep in mind we are all just speculating now.

OLSON: Yeah, yeah.

COX: Well, I would — in a specific instance, but the most prudent thing to do, if it this were feasible, and you take what you can get, but if it’s feasible, go for the ones that either authorized or failed to prevent.
 The end. Because then they’ll give people pause to authorize or fail to prevent.

OLSON: To go and go again; to — to do it again.

COX: I’d say the trooper that did it and the 
trooper that authorized it and the judge that authorized it. You know, it would be — kind of the top people.

OLSON: And what do we do with them – where do we hold them? I mean we have no holding facility.

COX: I don’t know. I mean that’s —

COX: — the thing, we’re just not —

OLSON: We’re not set up probably.

COX: We’re not set up for it, you know, I mean what do you do? But here’s — here’s the other thing though that is very powerful and has to do with this. The law and even their statutes authorize any force necessary to stop someone who is committing a felony. So a judge whose committing felony securities fraud, and conspiracy to kidnap and all these things. We actually are within the law. So there could be a future and resolution in publicly justifying our actions.
 Which is what — this is all substantiated. It proves that it’s trying to exhaust all other recourses because they
knew they were committing a felony, that they — that, you know, and there’s been lots of court cases that have been held where guys like shot cops. It’s like, yep, you’re defending yourself from an unlawful arrest.

OLSON: …this guy was aggressive toward a cop, you know, they come up with some…

COX: So, I don’t know what all the particulars are, and I don’t think we’re there yet. But I mean, once you start down that road… All right, yeah, I’m just wanting to hear guys — that’s a tough issue — subject to talk about.

OLSON: Oh, it is because — because the guy has got to be ready to die.

COX: Kill.

OLSON: And to kill, yeah.

COX: It’s easier to get ready to die than it is to kill.

OLSON: To actually take a life.

COX: At least for me anyway.

OLSON: Yeah.

COX: Dying is something that’s not too scary for me. Killing? I don’t want to do that to somebody.

OLSON: Yeah, yeah, that’s —

COX: But I’m willing. I’m definitely willing. I would not hesitate at all but it’s just what that means.
 I mean, that’s untying a knot that can’t be retied. Force it out of the barn.
 Then you got to worry about loose cannons like Aaron (Aaron Bennett from Far North Tactical in Fairbanks)

OLSON: Well, Bill (Fulton) and Aaron are ready to go. I mean, they would be — those guys are — Aaron’s a nut, I don’t trust him a bit myself but Bill. I don’t know. I think in a wartime situation I’d probably trust him a lot more than I would Aaron.

COX: I think they are too hedonistic.

OLSON: I know it. Yeah. Well, you know Bill, especially in his whole crew — these are guys that have just come back from Iraq or been in Iraq and they’re just all about killing. I mean, they’re not about justice or moral values or anything. All they want to see is brains flying.

COX: Well, that’s what makes them good at what they do. And whether those guys will admit it or not, that’s why they need us.

OLSON: Yeah, to hold ’em back. Bring reason and…

THESING: You gotta stop the two for one from even happening.

BARNEY: Even if we followed the two for one scenario out what I see — and this is from what I’ve seen with even our guys and stuff like that — everybody that,
you know, the idea of Patriotism and the idea of what we’re doing — they love the idea but what I see will happen if they grab you and we go for a two for one it’s going to be us. And guys won’t want to be involved with it until they fail to see enough sufficient force even on them to justify, you know, they’ll just expand and it will be the three of us.

OLSON: Well, we’d have Vernon, we’d have four. Because I think Lonnie’d be right with —

BARNEY: Yeah, there’d be four of us and it will be real quick and it will be over and they will — and all this — and all it’s been doing will just go away. And I think it will be — all the pioneering and all of the pushing I think it will just be gone away and they’ll say, we’ll I guess that was that. And you know, he was a wacko just like, you know, the media painted him out to be. And I think that’ll be the end of it. I don’t think that our war will just be over like that.
 I think we have to do what Ken said. We have to — now, if — let me ask you this, if they took 
you down there, if they did grab you, what — I mean, what is it to bail you out for — for the — I mean, we know that this thing is just barely above a speeding ticket what they’re trying to push on you but they’re treating it like — like you’re Hitler.

COX: Yeah, that judge can set it at whatever he feels like.
 They’ll just do anything they want.

THESING: The smartest thing… is take your self out so their claw can’t get out there to hook you and, uh, I don’t know what you’ve got to say to Marti, but you’re going to have to say something, because by the time two-for-one happens, you’re toast anyway. And what the hell — there’s no good thing that can come from that, not for you. I mean, I think you always got a
 calling on you to do something eventually. It may — you know, it may take a couple, three, four, six years before whatever the purpose is manifest, but you’re not going to be there if you don’t do something now about their accessibility to you. That’s what you need to work on, and I don’t know what to do.
If we had the dough, I mean, are you set financially to do anything? To prevent two-for-one.

COX: What do you mean?

THESING: Can you go? You’ve got a sailboat, I know, but, I mean, can you go away or do something until — because you’re not going back to that marble chicken coop anyway, now.
 You’ve got to get away from them, because they ain’t gonna leave here. I ain’t saying you should leave here, but find a really good disguise or go.

BARNEY: We’ve got to get to a point to where we can get … back in this, and I don’t know what it’s going to take to do that.

THESING: Remember, um, there’s, you know, 
biblical examples of where righteous people flee until, he always says, you know, like Moses, he says, well, the people that wanted you are now dead. They’re below the ground now. I’ve kept you above the ground because you went to Egypt for —

COX: God delivers, that’s I think probably the truest —

THESING: (Inaudible), the baby Jesus over to — they trucked him over to Egypt.

COX: God’s working and if he’s asked us to be a part of his plan, he’s going to handle the details. Right? 

THESING: It’s good  to just vacate.

COX: Let me see if on Order 241, you’re saying avoid, avoid, avoid, and wait for RAR to get military backing —

“What is RAR?” asked Skrocki.

“The Restore America Republic sovereign citizen group Thesing is involved in (As opposed to the Assembly Post group that Cox is with). They have plans to take over and institute their own government. Coleman thought it was going to happen soon. The RAR had their own military, or were going to set up their own military up, so when RAR had that set up, we’d have the backing of RAR’s military to defend Schaeffer.

THESING: Until something changes the balance of power. Yeah, just forget about RAR. I know you’re trying to just put a label on it, but it’s not about them
 guys.

COX: No, I know what you mean, we’re looking for RAR.

THESING: We’re looking for —

COX: — military backing.

BARNEY: Or even if it’s just, you know, hey, look what they’ve done with Schaeffer, we go (inaudible) and we strengthen our — our group of guys, our core group of guys, say, look, I mean, look at the intentional violations against the Constitution. And let them see where it is and get the — otherwise, it’s going to be so short in what we — are we going to make a difference? I mean, we need the force. We need something to spark the force.

COX: So, your position is just that we’re not strong enough? Which I would agree.

BARNEY: Yeah, and I — and I think that even the guys that we do have that are in the militia, they won’t see that as enough violation, even though they thought — in principle they believe it is.

COX: Knowing and doing is different. J.R., what’s your …
 operation 241?

OLSON: I’m ready to execute whatever is right. Um, I see what Coleman’s saying that it would be a quick — they’d snuff us all out and we’d be done and it’d be another Ruby Ridge, and boom, and them guys were a bunch of nut jobs, but by the same token, I hate to see you disappear and be gone, you know, and then we’re left with what? And whether they come and get you —

COX: If I do disappear, it’s not good for everybody —

THESING: We’ll just have to wait for God to work it, I mean, because if he’s going to use you and the other people that are involved in this, the end times are gathering. For whatever purposes he has, he’s going to make a way for you to — just like everybody else, to get them where they’re safe, whether it’s physically going to another location above the ground or, you know, just hiding out here, I guess. I don’t know where you’d do it, but — because it’s hard — if you — the closer you are to their power base, the more you have to be concealed and you have less freedom of movement. The further you get away, the more freedom of movement you have.
You know, just look at Moses’ example. He goes to …, he lives with his father-in-law Jethro for 40 years, I think, it’s like another 40 years — you’re a young guy. But, uh — because we ain’t got no 40 years. Not mankind as we know it.
 Anyway, so, the point is to stay alive and don’t even get to the point where we have to do the two-for-one, because that’s just retaliation and I don’t think 
that’s Yahweh’s plan for you to be fertilizer.

COX: Not fertilizer. I wouldn’t say that it’s just retaliation, it’s deterrent. Because if it’s two-for-one, I’m already gone.

THESING: Yeah, it’s a deterrent but not for you, though, because —

COX: No. But for you.

COX: All right, well, let me give you guys my thoughts. My thoughts on 241 is that we’re not in a strong enough position to execute more than once, we’re not in a strong enough position to follow through, and so at this point what we should do is do everything we can to avoid it, but that what we should do is we should bluff it for all it’s worth and pray for God’s protection and shielding hand and, uh, work and train and get ready to where we can turn that 241 into a real ability instead of just (inaudible).
 
 So, that — that sums up 241 and my position is bluff it and pray.

THESING: Let me read this real quick —

COX: What do you guys think of that? Of a direction to go here? I mean, that’s — that’s the direction I’d feel most comfortable leading everybody in as far as 241 and I don’t want to talk about that or spread that around and let people start knowing what that is. Just keep that very tight. But I think we should bluff it
- we’re already bluffing it. We just bluff it, pray, and dream.

BARNEY: We need to bluff it because otherwise — you know, it’s like you said, why do a lot of cops and a lot of judges and a lot of people who maybe might not normally go along with something — why did these guards over, you know, in Nazi Germany go along? It’s because they hung their conscience on the person giving the orders.
 And, if by doing this, it makes them think that, hey, there might be consequences personally to me if I just keep on going along and make them start thinking about the orders they’re getting and make them be fearful for their own actions and not just — it has nothing to do with me, I’m just following orders.

COX: Yeah, talk about throwing sand in their gears. Um, the other thing is, for — okay, so we need to have a definitive plan for Monday. Right? If they come out with a failure to appear, or even if they don’t, I’m
 going to lay a little bit low. Marti is not going to want to leave the house. She’s going to want — she’s sick of it, that poor girl, because she’s been living on the run and I haven’t — you know, this is just wearing her out, you know? 
Um, but try to lay low Monday and avoid — if they do — if they’re coming out with bench warrant, avoid it and try to hit them with paperwork every way I can. Um, to knock that down, but just lay low until the dust settles and see where we’re at.
And then if for some reason I get arrested or something like that or killed, um, rather — I still think we need to start training and getting ready for 241, but until such time as we’re ready to do 241, what — the thing that you probably could get everybody to go in on, is just raise hell. Just raise hell. Like what some Vietnam protestors said that we must make the cost of the war abroad the inability to manage society at home.
 And so just by having — picketing and just like — well, not quite a riot, but almost, you know? And on the radio and on TV and — and sit-ins and just every kind of, you know, peaceful protest and just get everybody’s panties 
in a wad and just rattle it all up and just stir it up and crank the siren,  you know, and get on Steve Fluory and Michael Dukes and bombard them with — put up fliers all over and — and hand deliver cards to the judge’s house, that’s probably good.
 That kind of thing. Please, you know, we know that you’re not a bad guy and we want you to — just kind of browbeat him. We know this is what the law says and you need to do that and this is not — you know, and  just, ah, God, unrest, unrest. You know, why aren’t you watching American Idol, you little —

BARNEY: In the meantime training up guys through and getting them ready.

COX: So, that we can — so that we can turn it from a bluff to a — to a –

BARNEY: An action.

COX: Yeah, and  the road I’ll take is, we’re ready and we could have you dead in minutes, but we are long suffering and we want to be your friends. You’ve got to stop pushing, we want to 
be at peace. We’re going to continue long suffering, but not forever.

BARNEY: (Inaudible) you go get those little target, bull’s-eye things, you put them on the back windows of all the cop cars.

COX: Yeah. The other thing is, is that even with just, you know, the guerrilla warfare, we definitely could rock this town.

OLSON: Oh, yeah.

(…)

COX: Maybe it’s good that we’ve got a mutual standoff, but I’d say from my part on — on Order 241, bluff it, pray, and train so that it can become real. And in the meantime, total Gandhi.

BARNEY: Okay. I’ve got those rentals. You can go stay at any one of those. The only worry of that is depending on how organized you think they are, they may be checking any of our places and anything that we own. But I don’t know if they’re really as organized as we give them credit for sometimes.

COX: I don’t think they know nearly as much –
 they really are incompetent in many ways. They’re powerful, but man, they’re incompetent.

Skrocki said to Olson, “Barney mentions in context of having somewhere to go. ‘I’ve got those rentals.’ Do you know what he meant?”

“At this point I hadcdn’t been there, but I went. There are some rental cabins – 6 or 9 of them. Coleman Barney was in the process of building them. I went there later and met Schaeffer and Coleman up there. This was later when he was on the run, when there was a warrant out for his arrest. He was a fugitive.”

He also explained about the adhesive targets people used for target practice that Barney was talking about sticking on the windows of police cars.

Back to the tape.

OLSON: At the end when — when — and we already kind of talked about this, but at the end that night after it was all over, Bill wanted us to come up to his room and talk business, Aaron wasn’t there, and then he called you and — and asked if he could talk business. That was about, um, getting ready to come up and he’d be ready, he’d need the two day notice to get all his men up to Fairbanks to defend you on this — February 14th on your court date. They’re ready to go, he can have his guys rallied and rounded up in two days and — and, um, you know, just let Schaeffer know and get the word to him somehow.
He talked a little bit about he can get, uh — whatever we need for fire power, you know, pineapple grenades, fully automatic stuff, um, 50 cal, whatever — whatever a person wants, he’s got the access to. So, for whatever that’s worth.

COX: I would like to have eight-second fuses and powder that burns fast enough to really send that shrapnel flying because we’re using the two second fuses right now.

OLSON: Yeah, that’s quick.

BARNEY: Better have your arm cocked back when you light it.

COX: Oh, no, you let the spoon go. But, you know, you pull the pin —

BARNEY: Yeah.

COX: — and then you let the spoon go.

BARNEY: And you’ve got two seconds.

OLSON: Oh, so you can let it go as you throw it.

COX: Yeah.

OLSON: Yeah, I — I think —

COX: Grenades scare me.

BARNEY: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

OLSON: There’s so much that can go wrong when it’s still right here by your cheek, you know?

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