Silence is Consent. (Updated)
It’s hard not to comment on today’s news. Killing in the name of pro-life.
Last year I attended a candlelight vigil at the Anchorage Unitarian Universalist Fellowship in the memory of innocent people who were gunned down in their church at a Sunday morning children’s program. They died not because of who they were, but for what they believed. They were randomly targeted as symbols of liberalism in America.
Adkisson, [the shooter] who had served in the military, said “that because he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement he would then target those that had voted them in office,” the search warrant states. Among the items seized from Adkisson’s house were three books: “The O’Reilly Factor,” by television commentator Bill O’Reilly; “Liberalism is a Mental Disorder,” by radio personality Michael Savage; and “Let Freedom Ring,” by political pundit Sean Hannity.
Memorial candles for the victims of the Tennessee Valley UU Church shootings.
It’s a lot to wrap your mind around.
This morning, a doctor and abortion provider was shot to death in front of his wife, in his church. The suspect in this case, 51-year old Scott Roeder from Kansas, posted this two years ago on an anti-abortion website:
“Bless everyone for attending and praying in May to bring justice to Tiller and the closing of his death camp…”
I hear lots of conservative pundits talking about health care. They don’t want government, and government beurocracies coming between people and their doctors. But when it comes to matters of reproductive freedom, they want the government to do exactly that.
They talk about being pro-life, and they believe that a human is a human at the moment of conception. But if that human grows up, and strays from the path of a good life, and is convicted of a horrible crime, they believe the government should put him to death.
They don’t want the government intruding into their lives, and telling them they can or can’t own a gun. They don’t want the government in their house making laws that tell them what to do. But they want laws taking rights away from people because of what they do in their bedrooms, and whom they choose to love.
Jesus was tortured to death for fear of what he might do. But the religious right doesn’t seem to mind if people are tortured, even those who may not have done anything yet. Think of what they might do. They might go after innocent people. They may come after us, in our homes, in our churches, just for the way we think. Just for what we believe. Just because we love our freedoms. But when one of their followers comes into a church on a Sunday morning, and kills people in the name of conservative values, there is an awkward silence. Right wing pundits, and those who need the political support of the conservative “base” are squeamishly non-commital in their opinions about these acts of domestic terrorism.
They like to talk about the constitution. But when people who don’t think like they do use the first amendment to speak up, they are demonized. They are called unpatriotic. They are called ungodly, and immoral. They are targeted.
And when does the first amendment cross the line and become incitement to violence? How many more killings like this can we expect in the future? In the last year, three people are dead, and six others were hospitalized with gunshot wounds, shot in churches in the name of God, for being who they are, and doing nothing that violated the law.
I am not saying that all conservatives condone these acts. I’m hoping with all my heart that the vast majority see this for what it is – the work of deeply disturbed individuals that do not reflect Christian values, or conservative values. But the fact remains that the media has power and influence, and when it is used to fan the flames of hatred, to instill fear, to put people in the middle of a big red bullseye, things like this will happen, and we, as a collective citizenry should not tolerate it. It is incitement. And it’s been used for a very long time to divide and mobilize people for political purpose and religious power.
“Why don’t Muslim leaders speak out against terrorism?” We hear that all the time. “Silence is consent,” they say. “If they really felt it was wrong, somebody would say something.” We’re told that since nobody is denouncing and rejecting these acts of terrorism, it must be condoned. And we don’t want any wesk-tea, carefully worded evasions. We need outright condemnation of terrorist acts; acts that are perpetrated to instill fear, to terrorize a group who holds an idealogy they don’t like. So, where are the right-wing conservative pundits? What do they think about this? Silence is consent, right?
[Update] To see a compilation by Brad Friedman of the alarming reaction on conservative blogs, click HERE.
Why did you feel that is was necessary to put the words “who was in the military” in the headline of this post? It has nothing to do with the heinous crime that was committed.
I didn’t put it in the headline which is “Silence is Consent”. The indented portion of the post is a clip from another source which is linked in the first sentence. AKM
Hugs to Lilady.
My mom grew up in the 50s and she has told me horror stories about girls who either had back-alley abortions or were sent to Catholic “Nunneries” to give birth and give the baby up for adoption. The girls who visited the back-alley abortion sites often found themselves infertile–forever. The girls who ended up in a nunnery came out terribly scarred emotionally.
Personally, I can say that what Dr. Tiller did was invaluable. I was not “late term” but I was 4 and a half months pregnant when I found out my baby was dead inside my womb. My OBGYN wanted me to wait until my body took care of the situation and “spontaneously abort” the fetus. I can’t begin to tell any of you how I felt for those three unbearably long days before I pleaded and then demanded a D and C. I had a one-year old and I needed to be a mom, but to this day, I will never, ever forget that feeling–empty times one billion and complete and total sadness. It was horrific and a I have never fully emotionally or psychologically healed 18 years later.
LiladyNY
Bless you hon. You’re right, and you know it.
It sounds like we’re the same generation, or so close it doesn’t really matter. I remember, too.
It’s a decision I never had to face, and I don’t envy those that have. I guess we just have to muddle along the best we can. Can’t be faulted for that (some may try, but they haven’t got a clue).
hugs,
Nan
Sorry, I meant before abortion was LEGAL. I can’t type from the tears in my eyes.
It needs to be shouted from the rooftops that abortion is LEGAL in this country and has been for more than 30 years! Murder, on the other hand, is ILLEGAL and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. It may be very simplistic to say, but if you don’t like abortion, DON’T HAVE ONE!
These idiots have no idea what they are ranting about. These MEN need to walk a mile in the shoes of a woman and then they MIGHT have the right to say word one about anything that pertains to a woman. If they put as much effort into promoting education and birth control as they do into against abortion, the numbers could drop way down and they would do something positive but I’m sure that would not speak to their ratings!
I hope by the God to whom they pray, that O’Reilly, Beck, Hannity and other hate-mongers of their ilk never have to suffer the horror of one of their loved mothers, daughters, wives, sisters being forced to carry the fetus of a rape or incest, or the horror of having to carry to term a dead fetus for months knowing every day that it is dead – or the danger of an ectopic pregnancy, or having to choose between the life of the mother or the fetus because circumstance dictates surely one of them will die without intervention or any of the countless reasons pregnancy is a danger to mother and child.
Sorry for the shouting, but I am so upset and angry about this. I come from the generation before abortion was illegal. I knew girls in high school who suddenly had to go “visit an aunt out-of-state” or girls who took to wearing baggy clothing. Making abortion illegal will not STOP it. Women will take to back alleys again or worse try to self-abort. Women don’t wake up one day and decide that they’ll have an abortion on a whim. It’s a terrible, heart-wrenching decision that stays with you your whole life! I know.
(So there!)
Now I have to go make nice with customers… sigh.
Have a good un, y’all.
Nan
(directed at the hate mongers who will never recognize themselves, anyway)
It is a given that shouting “Fire!” in a crowded theater is not included in the right to free speech. Too many people could be injured or killed in the resulting panic.
Yelling “This guy must be stopped no matter what the cost” or, “I want to see [my constituents] armed and dangerous” is the psychological equivalent to yelling “Fire” in an enclosed space. Even “Will no one rid me of that meddlesome priest” can have consequences. HELLO!
Some of the concepts of “will no one rid me of this meddlesome ___________” is a huge shout out to whatever marginalized, self-proclaimed keepers of the American flame are out there, trapped in fear, feeling there is no one but themselves to act the hero and take care of that meddlesome priest-doctor-future ex-spouse or whoever the demon-du-jour is.
O’Reilly, don’t tell me that you had nothing to do with Dr Tiller’s death. Don’t tell me that it’s not your fault that so-and-so was unstable and ready to pop. Even if true, you fed his fear. Your rhetoric helped to make him feel, in his troubled mind, that there was no other way to effect change than to force that change. And since no one else was going to do anything, well by God, he would.
O’Reilly, Hannity, et al: If your words have nothing to do with the actions of others, then why are you wasting your breath?
I concur with the bloggers who stated that “pro-life” people don’t care a hoot about the children who are born and wind up abused emotionally and physically, or orphans. I don’t see them taking any interest in what happens to the child after they are born, just a lot of hot air about not having an abortion. We need to be more proactive in preventing pregnancies in the first place.
They are hypocrites, killing is killing. If they are saying that doctors who perform abortions are killers, then so are the people who kill these doctors! It is getting absolutely ridiculous to see and hear people proclaiming religion and then act entirely differently. I, too, am one of those people who has been affected negatively by a so called “religious” person. I am very skeptical of anyone who promotes their religion as a means for personal gain or reasoning for their beliefs. Trust no one…especially if they play that religion card!
I knew there was a reason my mom and dad (God rest their souls) always liked Ford cars :-)!
209 mlaiuppa Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 10:00 PM
LOL.
Read AKMs post a few up.
Ford is shunning the right wing. It’s exactly what I said should be done.
Let FORD lead the way. And let’s get more on board with Ford.
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Yes -Yes !! UPS did the right thing awhile back –
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/03/27/ups-oreilly/
@ bucfan #208 wrote: “And the people like Randall Terry, Billo et al, should thank God that they were born men and never have to face such a decision.”
Men have wives, daughters (in-law) and granddaughters. Abortion may one day touch their lives in ways they don’t expect. It may not affect them physically but it can still affect them, and each one of us, directly and personally.
LOL.
Read AKMs post a few up.
Ford is shunning the right wing. It’s exactly what I said should be done.
Let FORD lead the way. And let’s get more on board with Ford.
But what really gets me is that some of the same people who oppose abortion, oppose the use of birth control and teaching safe sex to kids in school. You want to reduce the number of abortions? Then make those insurance companies who will pay for those lovely blue pills, but don’t pay for birth control pills and morning after pills, have to pay for those also. Teach kids how to protect themselves instead of just wishing them well and leaving them ignorant. I am tired of the love the fetus, hate the child crowd. I just want to know where in the bible it says that you can kill someone who you think is doing something morally wrong, even if it is legal. Jesus said something about let you without sin cast the first stone. And yes, he told the woman to go and sin no more, but he didn’t say go and sin no more or all bets are off. And I am tired of those people who think that woman who get an abortion do so with the same thought as ordering a Big Mac. And the people like Randall Terry, Billo et al, should thank God that they were born men and never have to face such a decision.
You know. That *is* one way to tackle this problem.
If anyone has the stomach for it, watch Hannity, O’Reilly, listen to Rush and then note every single advertiser and sponsor. Look up the contact information and publish it. Then every single one needs to get a letter stating that because of their support of a right wing extremist who practices hate speech on a regular basis, you will not patronize their business and will urge everyone you know to follow your example. It needs to go viral on the web. These businesses need to know that if they associate with hatemongers, their businesses will suffer. And the only way to get them to suffer is to make sure enough people jump on the bank wagon and boycott these businesses. But they need to be identified first.
Enough sponsors get the message that O’Reilly, Hannity et al is the touch of death, no one will buy time and their shows will be canceled. No one cares how many people watch. It’s only how much advertising the network can sell. And if no one is willing to buy because of the negative backlash….that’s it.
We need to make them pariahs. Shun them.
So O’Reilly demonizes this guy over 29 broadcasts using horrific language then when someone kills Dr Tiller, Billo tries to run away from any responsibility. No he didn’t say that Dr Tiller needed killin, but he wasn’t far away from it. And I nearly put my fist through the tv when they showed the statements by Randall Terry. That man is in for a surprise come judgement day. And even the people who did condemn it, always put something in about now babies won’t die anymore.
I’m not sure if anyone has suggested this. Donations can be made to “A Heartbreaking Choice”, a website that offers support and has some stories from patients who have had to make the trip to Kansas. http://www.aheartbreakingchoice.com/index.html
This is not a choice that any of us ever want to make, sometimes there is no choice to do what is right.
KaJo is right, you need to get this piece out, AKM. I have shared it with some like-minded friends. And re-reading SP’s statement, it just strikes me that it really is all about her. She is more worried about what people who aren’t already on her “side” might think, than just simply allowing the issue to be about Dr. Tiller, his family, and the hate. Mind-boggling.
You are the greatest group of people, and Ripley . . . you are no doubt a fine human being. Stay proud, and strong.
Two thoughts for the evening:
“I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.”
-Galileo Galilei
“It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society.”
-Krishnamurti
197 Karin in CT Says:
@El Jefe–there is a MudstoCT 2 in the works! And knowing how much fun we had the first time, we will not let you down with further escapades…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There is no doubt that you gals will slay ’em. I and all mudpuppies that witnessed the last mission know full well what the “Angels” are capable of. And I’m sure it will be documented once again with great pictures. Keep AKM apprised via e-mail so she can have a thread for the mission.
redwoodmuse Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 5:54 PM
crystalwolf aka caligrl Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 3:56 PM
How I Witnessed Sarah Palin’s Fuming Anti-Abortion Fanatics
Hey, I *Knew* I liked you. Nice site. I read some of your other articles too. I also remember Kitty Genovese. I was in California and it was all over the radio. I was also young and appalled even then. I remember asking my mother, why? why? and she said, ‘they just didn’t want to get involved.’ I still think some wild liberal gypsies must have left me on the doorstep of that household, cause I never fit the bigoted, sexist and racist mold of my family even when I was little. It just seemed so wrong. So, now, I’m the acknowledged ‘weird one’ in the family. But I’ll never have regrets for being a bystander.
redwoodmuse
~~~~~~~~~~
Oh, no, no! I didn’t write that…I wish 🙂 I just thought it a good article to share…
austintx Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 5:43 PM
The ass-hole has spoken.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/01/oreilly-tiller-respond/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
O’reilly is a lyin’ SOB! But he did say the guy was a freeman or something, like a AIP’r?
KO had a really good ending on his show, Reign in Faux news, I say muzzle them until they stop their Hate speeches!! Against PO, against everyone!
Get rid of bill o, limpballs, and beck, hannity is kind of a pissant, I’m not sure about him…but yeah, a general boycott of Fox news advertisers! yes!
Thank you again AKM, for beautifully expressing the feeling I’ve had all day.
May Dr. Tiller’s family have peace and bountiful love.
By the way, AKM, that was an extremely well done essay above. It should be sent out into the general blogosphere for a larger audience!
Thanks KaJo. I took your suggestion and put it up on Daily Kos. AKM
One more link for you all regarding the criticism of Palin’s statement that fails to denounce abortion-clinic violence as domestic terrorism:
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/sarah-palin-most-right-wingers-doesn
Wow, emotions sure are running high here on the flats today. Many tears have been shed from this pup for the other pups who have shared their stories. Hugs and love to all of you.
Dang, I wish I was retired like Nan and UKlady and austintx, etc. so I could be here all day with you wonderful people too!
@El Jefe–there is a MudstoCT 2 in the works! And knowing how much fun we had the first time, we will not let you down with further escapades…
austintx Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 5:47 PM
I posted this way up the thread. Here it is again.
http://www.debone.com/boycottFoxNewsSponsors.html
____________
Thank you for posting that again.
It is also wise to let people know who might not have seen KO tonight, he made a suggestion if you will. Rather than simply boycott the sponsors, (still a good idea to do as the more that is done the better the point gets across) boycott those who tune into Fox. If you eat at a restaurant and they have Fox on, ask for it to be changed, and if they don’t, leave and politely explain why. No need for rudeness or confrontation. If you are at a bar and Fox is on, do the same. Where ever you are, repeat this behavior. Simply take you business to those who don’t endorse by way of sponsoring such hate. KO had it right. Fox will not change until they start to lose money, and they way to lose money is to lose viewers.
crystalwolf aka caligrl Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 3:56 PM
How I Witnessed Sarah Palin’s Fuming Anti-Abortion Fanatics
Hey, I *Knew* I liked you. Nice site. I read some of your other articles too. I also remember Kitty Genovese. I was in California and it was all over the radio. I was also young and appalled even then. I remember asking my mother, why? why? and she said, ‘they just didn’t want to get involved.’ I still think some wild liberal gypsies must have left me on the doorstep of that household, cause I never fit the bigoted, sexist and racist mold of my family even when I was little. It just seemed so wrong. So, now, I’m the acknowledged ‘weird one’ in the family. But I’ll never have regrets for being a bystander.
redwoodmuse
I posted this way up the thread. Here it is again.
http://www.debone.com/boycottFoxNewsSponsors.html
The ass-hole has spoken.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/01/oreilly-tiller-respond/
189
Shadow’s Heart
Find me on the forum and send me a note so we can keep in touch. I’m always up for a decent road trip!!!
@crystalwolf aka caligirl:
Thanks for the link. Your article is well-written…and scary.
Lee323 Says:
The enemy within has become equal or greater to the enemy without. Domestic terrorism incited by Christian religious zealotry is no different than foreign terrorists with their own jihad in the name of their “God.”
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You laid it out loud and clear. Thank you. Jonathan Turley was on Rachel just now , and he and you are on the same wavelength.
Thanks to all for the Mudpuppy love shown here today. I appreciate it more then words can say. I didn’t cry while writing the poem but all your responses brought tears to my eyes. Those who said they see Mudflats as a safe haven are absolutely spot on. I’m not saying I wouldn’t have written the piece but I don’t think I would have put it on here if I didn’t feel safe in doing so. You guys are always kind in thought, word and deed.
Ripley if you ever need a safe haven I live in the gayest community in NJ you couldn’t be more safer than here and you’re welcome here any time.
Star you will move forward I promise. Journal your feelings confide in good trusted friends or scream and rage but let your voice be heard. I spent most of my life not talking about my experiences I guess because I was never encouraged to so but I came to realize that what they say about history is true those who do not learn by it are destine to repeat it. Harry Chapin has a line in one of his songs that goes like this. “If you try to look but you don’t touch, then you won’t touch but you’ll never feel and if you don’t feel then you’ll never cry and if you don’t cry then you’ll never heal.” And as an aside if you ever need to talk or want to talk I’m here for you.
Thanks again to each and all.
KO and RM are really ripping into Bill O, faux news about what happen to Dr. Tiller! RM just interviewed the guy who wrote “crazy for god” (he used to be a wingnut)
The majority of people in this country have watched and listened with varying degrees of alarm, outrage, and disgust to the increasingly violent, hateful, and even seditious rhetoric coming from the extreme right wing since the election.
Palin had a huge part in stoking these unholy fires of hate and paranoia with her despicable campaign tactics during and after the election. She, along with Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, O’Reilly etc, ALL share some degree of responsibility for the cold-blooded murder of Dr. Tiller. They could see as well as the rest of us that their rhetoric was accelerating and inflammatory to the point of engendering real and possible harm to our country and her citizens.
The amorphous, free-floating religious zealotry and hate “out there” was exploited and directed by Palin et al through the lenses of volatile social issues into a narrow beam that, in this case, focused on Dr. Tiller with deadly consequences.
Truly great, wise leaders seek to DIFFUSE the amorphous, free-floating public rage into channels that will protect a civil and democratic society….not try to focus and intensify the rage more tightly into an instrument that increases chaos and violence in a society.
The majority of people in this country are reasonable and understand exactly the significance of Dr. Tiller’s murder as I’ve outlined above. His murder will NOT be the rejuvenation of the anti-choice movement. It has crystallized the impression in reasonable peoples’ minds that the run-away train of hate speech has to be stopped……and now. Palin and other divisive, primitive politicians like her will be rejected. Rejected with disgust.
The enemy within has become equal or greater to the enemy without. Domestic terrorism incited by Christian religious zealotry is no different than foreign terrorists with their own jihad in the name of their “God.”
Peace to Dr. Tiller’s family.
@austintx
blehhhh…it’s simply gives me the creeps and it’s not only the Catholics. There’s too many examples to go over. I hope your son escaped this trauma. I would join you in beating them to a pulp!
And Jefe, @ 110, we already have a re-CT in the works!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now that’s my girl !! We got your back here. ALWAYS. Quite frankly , I’m not sure how you gals can top the last mission. I mean , the pictures were a scream !! But then again , you gals ARE “Angels”………so the sky is the limit. Chin up and smile. You know where to reach us.
austintx when i was a child i ran into a few preachers who liked little kids. i had an uncle who was very much like you. uncle knew how to strike fear in the hearts of predators. i try to stay as far away from religious people as possible…b
I just got home from coaching a high school game. And I decided to stop here first.
I’m all teary. You Mudpups are simply the best people there are on this earth. Never doubt that for one moment. The support you show to everyone is commendable. Thank you all for your kind words. And to the others who have laid out their stories, thank you as well. They say what doesn’t kill us makes us stronger… I disagree. It’s people like you all that make me stronger.
Thank you thank you thank you.
And Jefe, @ 110, we already have a re-CT in the works!
I love you all.
Lainey – The Catholic church has paid out over 1 Billion dollars for settlement of sexual abuse cases. Because my son’s mother is Catholic and his grandmother is one bigtime , I allowed his participation at the church. I’ll never forget being at the grandmothers house after one of my nephews was christened and the priest was there for the party. I was in the kitchen and the priest was telling me he was going on vacation. I asked where , and he said Thailand and Amsterdam with a sick grin on his face. I always thought he was a little “touchy” with the kids. At my first oppurtunity that day , I told the Granny that if anyone from the church ever hurt one of the kids , I would beat them to a pulp. My son is 15 and quit going last year on his own decision. All of the following recently came out :
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1184828/Revealed-decades-ritual-child-abuse-Catholic-schools-orphanages-damned-report.html
How I Witnessed Sarah Palin’s Fuming Anti-Abortion Fanatics
“The following is an excerpt of an article I published after attending a Sarah Palin rally in Southern California where I witnessed reinvigorated anti-abortion fanatics spurred on by Palin’s inflammatory rhetoric. At that time, as evidenced by the text of my earlier article (below), it was clear to me that a similar threat of domestic terrorism to that inflicted on this nation by convicted anti-abortion murderer Eric Rudolph, was probable and undeterred by Sarah Palin — the latest charismatic leader in the anti-abortion movement.
With today’s heinous and unforgivable murder of Kansas physician, Dr. George Tiller, my frightening premonition has come to pass. These domestic terrorists must be stopped!! As should media terrorist, Bill O’Reilly, who used his Fox bully pulpit and THE PEOPLE’S airwaves to publicly target Dr. Tiller. Today Bill O’Reilly shares the burden of guilt for the demise of this long victimized, now murdered, medical professional.”
http://www.opednews.com/articles/How-I-Witnessed-Sarah-Pali-by-Linda-Milazzo-090531-908.html
@trisha
These people are not pro-life, they are anti-choice. If they were really pro-life, they would be for all life.
After being born, they could give a damn about children or life.
——————
I know…I agree. How many reported cases of child molestation are by a pastor or reverend of some kind? …how about that Sunday school teacher/predator? How many murders are commited by a religious nut that doesn’t approve of how the victim lived or what they did? How many preachers are on the down low?…how many are adulterers? How many right-wing talk show hosts objectify women and have had se*ual harrassment charges filed against them? Jeez…don’t they get it? They cannot ‘teach’ anybody anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They can’t even follow their own stupid rules! They have no business speaking in public.
Ripley, Tealwomin, Shadow’s Heart, the “other” Nebraskan and all the puppies… what courage you all show, what pain you have carried so gracefully…I spent most of the day at work reading about Dr. Tiller’s murder on many many sites, trying to come to grips with all that this means. I have no answers, I did read in a Nebraska paper that Dr. Carhart from Nebraska will help Dr. Tiller’s patients who had appointments this week and next, and for that I am grateful…
I started writing about my own experience, and decided it was TMI. So I deleted it. Suffice it to say that Dr. Tiller was a strong advocate for women and his work, compassion and care will live in the hearts of many.
mlaiuppa and KJ – The thought that her message was written by someone else crossed my mind, also. Rather than being the usual word salad it is grammatically correct, coherent, and leaves out the words “progress,” “also,” and “too.”
I am so heavy with all these words and tears and emotions. Thank you Shadow Heart, and all you other brave souls, not surprisingly . . . so many women. And not surprisingly, these killers of doctors are rarely women.
I do not hide the fact that I was adopted, but have only recently found myself bringing it up in the “life” debates. For the most part I have to say that I have been blessed in my life, with good, caring adoptive parents. I did have an adoptive brother who abused me my whole life, leading me to cut him off completely and give him our inherited home on the beach in Hawaii just to save my sanity and probably, my life. As my parents were much older when they adopted I was on my own at 26 years and had to do a lot of growing.
I have hardened some of my views on adoption as “The” solution. It is often a terrible experience. I think my brother has never accepted himself. I worked for years with youth on the streets and the numbers of adopted children were so disproportionate. I have gone on to work with children in war zones and other emergencies in the world and seen the reality behind international adoption. Don’t even get me started about Angelina Jolie and Madonna.
Abortion. Adoption. Abandonment. These are profoundly difficult decisions, and they are as real to the girl in Darfur who abandons the child of her rape, to the Governor, the CEO, the high school school. The upstanding, deeply religious wife of a prominent rural farmer who is told her fetus is profoundly disabled, and decides with her husband to go to Kansas, as she cannot get the late-term procedure done in Nebraska.
Years ago I took an 18 year old girl to have an abortion because she asked me to hold her hand. She lived in a car. Her other 3 children were in custody of the State. Developmentally, she was about 12 years old. She decided to have the abortion because she knew if she saw that child’s face she would not give it up for adoption. And she knew it would be taken out of her arms in the hospital. I will never forget that day, one of the hardest in my life.
asiangrrlMN Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 1:14 PM
Ripley, Tealwomin, and Shadow’s Heart, thank you all for sharing. This is why I come back to the ‘flats time and time again. The willingness of people to open up about painful things. I think we all heal a little in the process.
I am still very sad about this, but a thread of anger is worming its way through. This has to stop.
______________________________________
If anyone is angry, then take action: personally contact companies that sponsor O’Reilly and others and let them know why you won’t be buying their products. Email talk show hosts, and call them on the carpet for their rants. Volunteer at Planned Parenthood, or a daycare center that serves low-income families, make a donation–
I talked to a Toyota rep this morning, and explained why I will not buy another car (love my Highlander, and we have purchased 12 Toys in the last 15 years). He appreciated my call, and told me who my message went to- Regional Ad Manager. Also emailed O’Reilly, Comcast, and called local FOX. It took time, but felt good.
Shannyn puts Palin’s priorities out there for all to see!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shannyn-moore/palin-prejean-a-victim-of_b_210018.html
mlaiuppa,
I am with you. That statement is grammatically correct and even empathetic. Someone else had to have written it.
ValleyIndependent
“Perhaps I am mistaken, but I don’t think her extreme position has changed.”
_________________
I think you’re 100% correct. Dangit.
I don’t know if she is able to see herself in “the other guy’s shoes.” I don’t know if she is even able to recognize that there *are* other shoes, other “situations” than her own.
And that’s probably what scares me as much as anything else about her.
Does anyone really believe the message Palin delivered today was written by her? Really? Anyone? Bueller?
Martha: A judge ruled that Faux news is under no obligation to report the truth.
And there you have it. It’s what puts the Faux in Fox.
Nan, your point about being careful how we word things is well taken.
I think we are all on the same page, really, and I do think many of us have had a fleeting “what if” moment that didn’t really qualify as serious consideration.
What I have a hard time understanding, though, is how someone in very fortunate circumstances who is absolutely anti-abortion, could think about having an abortion, even in passing, and not come away from that experience with enough new understanding and compassion for other women to realize that option needs to be left open for them. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I don’t think her extreme position has changed.
Pro-lifers don’t care about about life outside a woman’s womb.
death penalty….sure, why not.
torture……no problem
war……we are O.K. with that, why would we protest war?
child abuse, hunger, education….huh?
These people are not pro-life, they are anti-choice. If they were really pro-life, they would be for all life.
After being born, they could give a damn about children or life.
Shadow’s Heart…Am in tears here..I try to move forward but it is still so hard to do…You are not alone ((hugs)) This is why i come here..Good place and a safe place..
Ripley, Tealwomin, and Shadow’s Heart, thank you all for sharing. This is why I come back to the ‘flats time and time again. The willingness of people to open up about painful things. I think we all heal a little in the process.
I am still very sad about this, but a thread of anger is worming its way through. This has to stop.
In my humble opinion, they’ve forfeited the right to call themselves ‘pro’-lifers.
They’ll have to go back to anti-abortionists.
How many of us, with one kid at the terrible twos, and one in diapers and won’t go to sleep, haven’t had at least one split second moment in which we wondered what would have happened if we’d stayed in school and become that photo-journalist?
I’d be amazed if SP – or anyone else pregnant at the age of 44 didn’t think for just one second even – I should have had a headache that night! (or… any of the other ‘what-if’s”)
I think what I’m saying is – I can’t begrudge her that “what if” moment or three, or even more. What I do begrudge is her saying that no one else should have that same option (banning all abortions, no matter what).
We really are on the same page, it just seems sometimes that – I think we need to be careful how we word things. I don’t think I’m explaining myself very well. I’m sorry, didn’t mean it for cranky, just – I’m not explaining myself well at all, am I?
heading to corner until I learn how to talk…
ValleyIndependent
Well said, if she is pro life there should have never been a question.
((((Shadow’s Heart))))
Some of the moderators were having a discussion and would like to invite Priceless and others who would be interested in dialoguing further to join our Forum. There will be a new thread just for you. It will be a NO YELLING, discussion forum for other viewpoints. (Not that all the folks on the forum think alike, but hopefully you get the drift)
See you there !
@ Nan 143 – ditto your comments to tealwomin.
@ Nan 141 – I agree with you that SP certainly should have had the right to choose when she found out she was pregnant, and when she found out the baby would be DS. It is not her consideration of having an abortion that bothers me, it is her hypocrisy in doing so not once, but twice, while proclaiming to the world that her stance is 100% unequivocally pro-birth, and while advocating that her ability to choose should be denied other women. I just don’t like people whose words proclaim them to be one thing and whose actions declare them quite another.
Well said AKM.
just dropped to see lynnerockets. new song up. don’t want lynn to be lonely…b
Ripley–redwoodmuse has an “s” on my behalf too! We love you and Tealwomin and Shadow’s Heart all the rest of the mudpups who have felt abused and neglected and disliked for who they are and all the rest of that. I love you ALL!
Hugs to Ripley and the many mudpup “s” holders.
Ripley
xxoo
Phoebe
Shadow’s Heart
Those are powerful words.
Thank you.
Nan
shadows heart- wow oh wow…well said…..b
http://coloradoindependent.com/30017/late-term-abortion-doctor-decries-tiller-killing-this-is-a-fascist-movement
“I’m profoundly sad and I’m furious and I think the American people need to understand that we have a fascist movement in this country,” Dr. Warren Hern told The Colorado Independent on Sunday. “We don’t have to invade Iraq to find terrorists. They’re right here killing abortion doctors.”
CLARIFICATION: Dr. Warren Hern’s claim that he is the last late-term abortion provider is not factually correct, according to reproductive health experts. While there are few physicians who publicly advertise these rare services as Dr. Hern does, third trimester abortions are available, by physician referral, to women experiencing serious, life-threatening medical conditions and in the event of a stillborn or gravely ill baby. – Ed.
From the horses mouth!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/how-i-and-other-pro-life_b_209747.html
========================================
How I (and Other “Pro-Life” Leaders) Contributed to Dr. Tiller’s Murder
===========================================
My late father and I share the blame (with many others) for the murder of Dr. George Tiller the abortion doctor gunned down on Sunday. Until I got out of the religious right (in the mid-1980s) and repented of my former hate-filled rhetoric I was both a leader of the so-called pro-life movement and a part of a Republican Party hate machine masquerading as the moral conscience of America.
Sometimes the Religious Right brings out the worst in me or maybe sometimes the best, it’s a hard call. Being brought up in foster care I started thinking about their hypocrisy so I wrote this this afternoon. Sorry for anything that’s amiss I read it so many times my head is spinning and now hurts. LOL
A Prayer for the Unwanted
Where were they when we were frightened and crying in the night?
Where were they when we were beaten with bruises red and bright?
Where were they when we were lonely with no one left to care?
Where were they when we were angry and brought down to despair?
Where were they when we were mocked for not being one of them?
Where were they when all we needed was compassion and a friend?
Where were they when we felt like dying and had no place left to go?
Where were they when we were hungry with our tummies hurting so?
Were they praying to their Jesus that we would turn out right?
Were they visiting us in orphanages to help our lives be light?
Were they taking foster kids to parks or perhaps to the zoo?
Were they taking foster kids into their homes to share a meal or two?
No the foster kids aren’t moving in and the adoptions aren’t in place.
They don’t have the room or funds so I guess that they’re just two faced.
They were the ones who yelled and screamed and insisted we’d be born.
So from where they sit they’ve done God’s will they need do nothing more.
JW 2009
the gop is the defacto political arm the white citizens council and the kkk and all its sudsideries and other fascist groups. the shift came about during civil rights era.
GOP Dominated By White Conservatives: Gallup Poll
Susan Crile
I did not think it was THIS bad! WOW! GOP 89% white AND 50 % of those “strongly religious.”! No wonder there is such hate toward pro choice and gays from the right. America really needs a new conservative party.
Excerpt and link;
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/01/poll-finds-gop-is-dominat_n_209764.html
As the GOP struggles to define itself in the face of its own considerable image problems, a new poll indicates that the Republican party’s base fundamentally lacks diversity.
The poll, released today by Gallup, shows that a staggering 89% of the GOP is white, and that 63% identify as conservatives. It is, in the words of the poll’s author, “first and foremost a political entity dominated by white Americans.”
In contrast, the poll found that around 36% of Democrats are non-white. Of the 64% of Democrats who are white, the poll found that about half lean toward a moderate or liberal ideological position.
The poll also suggests that Republicans are more religious than either Democrats or Independents, with about half of those polled identifying as “strongly religious.”
The poll is particularly significant given the increasingly weak position of the GOP itself.
oh lord! finals and carnegie hall. excitement must be tremendous in your house. my daughter called yesterday and she is marking papers and getting ready for end of school year. i hope she comes to see me soon.
bubbles – Good here……..finals and gearing up for Carnegie Hall.
Tealwomin,
You are a strong, wise, articulate human being. I’m glad you’re here.
I’m glad the Mudflats is here.
Good people here.
Nan
140 bubbles Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 11:09 AM
hey austin- how are you?
=============================
I’m going to say hmmmmmmmm……21, I’m sucking up after my huge faux paus .
Uh, guys? Either we are for the “right to choose” or we aren’t. How can proponents of the right to choose, condemn anyone for considering “either” choice?
To criticise SP for considering “the options” in her pregnancy is non-productive at beset and even hypocritical (for a pro-choice advocate, anyway).
However. Criticizing her for wanting to deny others that same option she had? Go for it.
This is a tragedy for the friends and family of this doctor and my heart goes out to them.
I get too angry and start frothing at the mouth when I address the issue of choice. It is my deep and fervent belief that some women have been making this choice since we figured out where babies come from. The only thing that “pro-lifers” can do is make the choice unsafe. And that would truely be tragic for many, many women.
I cannot tolerate anyone else making decisions about what I can and cannot do with my body. If they can dictate that I have to have a baby, how long will it be before they can dictate that I cannot have one. It works both ways.
But let me get off my soapbox on that subject…the subject of anyone inciting others to commit violence is abhorrent. It was one of the most disturbing parts of the last Presidential campaign. And now, with this incident, it is frighteningly close to what happened on the radio in Rwanda. If they cannot see what the power of words can do, god help them.
I do want to address what I have done to feel a little more powerful on this subject. CREDO action has a petition to “tell Bill O’Reilly to take responsibility for creating an atmosphere in which the assassination of Dr. George Tiller comes as no surprise. Ask him to pledge to stop spreading the hateful rhetoric that encourages violence against doctors who provide reproductive healthcare for women.” and/or a place to make donations to Medical Students For Choice. I would link this but it came in an e-mail and I don’t know how to do that.
For all of you mudpups who so bravely share your own stories I can send you nothing but mudpuppy love and a heartfelt: I am sorry that these things have happened to you. I accept you here and everywhere!
136 austintx Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 10:56 AM
Martha – 100% heterosexual male here
============================
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPS!!
No cowboy boots with the high heels behind? Just kidding!!! Have mercy!
hey austin- how are you?
I find it Interesting that Sarah Thinks she has the need (and most people care) to make a Comment on Everything that happens in the United States.
She posted her “Response” to the slaying of the Doctor in Kansas. It was the typical response one would expect from somone from the right so it really is not even newsworthy
“I feel sorrow for the Tiller family. I respect the sanctity of life and the tragedy that took place today in Kansas clearly violates respect for life” is the start of it.
She displays a multitude of brain disorders.
The commenting on the Dr. Tiller shooting makes me think of people who suffer from
megalomania
1. A psychopathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, or omnipotence.
Some people (the right side of the political spectrum and some on the left of course too to be fair) Complained about Obama running for Pres 2 years before the Elections.
Sarah Started running for Pres during last years VP campaign and now the Right thinks that is ok.
The dictionary needs to update the definition of Hypocrit and incorporte ” “Post Reagan Republicans” into it.
If and When Republicans kick the far right out of power and go back to the days of Barry Goldwater “Republicans” then they will be a strong political party.
Hey bubbles !!
ripley — i love you girl. i am proud to call you my friend. you ever need me just call. you know the number.————–tealwoman- you have walked a long road. on the way you have made friends with wisdom, honesty and charity. good companions all…love b
Martha – 100% heterosexual male here.
FOX news, they just refuse to stop. Even after Dr. Tiller has been murdered, they will not give him any peace, not for a single minute! Disgusting!
==================================
http://mediamatters.org/blog/200906010013
Tucker Carlson calls comparison of Dr. Tiller to Nazis and al-Qaida “objectively true”
June 01, 2009 12:47 pm ET by Jamison Foser
This speaks for itself:
Anonymous: Over the past few years, Bill O’Reilly has made the following comments about Dr. Tiller:
– He “destroys fetuses for just about any reason right up until the birth date for $5,000.”
– He’s guilty of “Nazi stuff,”
– a moral equivalent to NAMBLA and al-Qaida
– “This is the kind of stuff that happened in Mao’s China, Hitler’s Germany, Stalin’s Soviet Union”
– “operating a death mill”
– “has blood on his hands”
– “executing babies about to be born
Tucker, I’m not saying Billo wanted some kook to kill him, but isn’t this playing with fire? Is there some quote by Olberman or any other liberal commentator that even comes close? Who has the craziest of the liberal left murdered lately?
Tucker Carlson: Every one of those descriptions of Tiller is objectively true. I sincerely think it’s appalling that he was murdered. But Tiller was a monster, no doubt
I just wrote to PO. I’m so upset at this situation. I told him I think there should be a line between Free speak and hate speech.
There should be a tipline to report hate speech. This guy who shot Dr. Tiller posted on Operation Rescue 2 yrs ago he was going to stop Dr. Tiller in May. Yesterday was the last day of May.
I also mentioned the hate speech of certain sites against the current administration, and certain politicians who call DC “The FEDs” Right now I’m so mad I can hardly think!
The Secretary of HS came out with a memo about a month ago warning about the wing nuts and the WH came out soft and didn’t support her. I told him (PO) that was unacceptable and now someone has been killed b/c of that.
I really couldn’t find a link to email Secretary Of homeland security so I just email PO.
I also mentioned Bill O. And his hate rants against Dr. Tiller, he called him Dr. killer and some lame ass woman on MSNBC actually said dr. killer…er, dr. Tiller! Unbelievable!
I am totally sick of this hate filled wing nuts!
131 austintx Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 10:34 AM
Can someone please help me and tell me if this is Steele in this picture ?
http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/5/57/Gay-marriage-protest-civil-rights.jpg
============================
Oh you are a naughty wicked girl!……ROFLMBO
Priceless, here you go, I have some links to Media Matters for you.
Rush Limbaugh is sooooooo bad they have an entire section called “Limbaugh watch”.
Beck, Hannity, O’Reilly and the rest are tagged at least daily daily, sometimes 2 or 3 times for one program, for their out right lies, misleading stories and propaganda. They have been tagged 3 times today already!!
In fact Fox news as a whole would’t know the truth if it bit them in the rear end;
Lawyers try to explain to O’Reilly that his “rights” aren’t violated by private criticism
May 29, 2009 9:06 pm ET filed under Clips
O’Reilly: “The left sees white men as a problem”
May 28, 2009 9:36 pm ET filed under Clips
O’Reilly on Dennis Miller’s “Sonia Sotomayor joke”: “You’re putting her out as Ricky Ricardo’s mother, and that’s not fair”
May 27, 2009 9:13 pm ET filed under Clips
Citing “talk radio” O’Reilly says “the core conservative person… does not understand that the GOP is shrinking”
May 27, 2009 8:50 pm ET filed under Clips
O’Reilly again claims that if gay marriage was legalized, “you could have married a duck”
May 26, 2009 9:33 pm ET filed under Clips
http://mediamatters.org/search/tag/bill_o_reilly
======================================
Have Sotomayor’s critics actually read her Berkeley speech?
May 29, 2009 8:15 pm ET filed under Research
Media imagine scorn “white male” would receive for equivalent of Sotomayor’s “wise Latina” remarks
May 29, 2009 7:18 pm ET filed under Research
On Hannity, Menin says “the comments that Clarence Thomas made… were the same” as Sotomayor’s “wise Latina woman” comment
May 27, 2009 10:12 pm ET filed under Clips
Menin explains to Hannity panel that in Ricci decision, Sotomayor “followed 2nd Circuit precedent”
May 27, 2009 10:04 pm ET filed under Clips
Hannity claims Obama “turns his back on Mainstream America” by nominating “the most divisive nominee possible,” a “radical”
May 26, 2009 9:28 pm ET filed under Clips
Hannity describes those who oppose waterboarding as “moral fool[s]”
May 22, 2009 2:01 pm ET filed under Clips
http://mediamatters.org/search/tag/sean_hannity====================================
Fox News’s Wallace, Bream misrepresented Heller to suggest Sotomayor engaged in “activism”
59 minutes ago filed under Research
Fox News is just asking about Sotomayor’s “wise Latina” remarks: “New Racism?”
6 hours and 46 minutes ago filed under Clips
Rick Newman on Sotomayor’s Berkeley speech: “I don’t think any of us are really going to go and read the whole speech”
7 hours and 25 minutes ago filed under Clips
Fox panel debates whether “Sonia Sotomoyor on the high court would be bad news for jobs on main street”
May 30, 2009 11:47 am ET filed under Clips
Beck: “When did we get to the place in America to where we can’t have disagreements without demonizing each other?”
May 29, 2009 9:29 pm ET filed under Clips
Lawyers try to explain to O’Reilly that his “rights” aren’t violated by private criticism
May 29, 2009 9:06 pm ET filed under Clips
Have Sotomayor’s critics actually read her Berkeley speech?
May 29, 2009 8:15 pm ET filed under Research
Baier falsely claims Sotomayor said “a white male was not as qualified as a Latina woman to make legal decisions”
May 29, 2009 8:14 pm ET filed under Clips
Special Report devotes an entire segment to Obama’s “jealous mistress,” the “Teleprompter of the United States”
May 29, 2009 8:07 pm ET filed under Clips
Reporting on Sotomayor, “identity politics,” and “the immigration debate,” Fox shows video of apparent immigrants in detention
May 29, 2009 7:38 pm ET filed under Clips
Despite claiming he isn’t “advocating that people should not pay their income tax,” Beck asks whether Americans “have the guts” to do so
May 29, 2009 7:35 pm ET filed under Clips
Media imagine scorn “white male” would receive for equivalent of Sotomayor’s “wise Latina” remarks
May 29, 2009 7:18 pm ET filed under Research
Beck: “The government’s irresponsible spending is turning us into slaves”
May 29, 2009 7:04 pm ET filed under Clips
==============================================
http://mediamatters.org/search/tag/fox_news_channel
Can someone please help me and tell me if this is Steele in this picture ?
http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/5/57/Gay-marriage-protest-civil-rights.jpg
129 EyeOnYou Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 10:25 AM
Laurie Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 10:08 AM
@priceless.
I respect your right to watch who you want, and I admire the fact you look at both sides. I am so angry so often, that I cannot always do that.
I do beg to differ on one point. When Beck or O’Reilly have guest on the opposite side of an issue, they yell over them, and it that doesnnt work, they cut them off. Very distasteful.
____________
This is how they can claim “fair and balanced” and technically get away with it. They claim that they have people with different viewpoints on so that makes them more balanced than other places, but the reality of the situation is that while they may allow an opposing viewpoint on air, they do not allow well reasoned arguments on air, instead they holler, shout, talk over their guests and simply cut their mikes if they don’t like the way the conversation is going. That is the indisputable proof that they can’t rationalize their own viewpoints and arguments.
************************************************
And they flat out LIE.also.too.
Laurie Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 10:08 AM
@priceless.
I respect your right to watch who you want, and I admire the fact you look at both sides. I am so angry so often, that I cannot always do that.
I do beg to differ on one point. When Beck or O’Reilly have guest on the opposite side of an issue, they yell over them, and it that doesnnt work, they cut them off. Very distasteful.
____________
This is how they can claim “fair and balanced” and technically get away with it. They claim that they have people with different viewpoints on so that makes them more balanced than other places, but the reality of the situation is that while they may allow an opposing viewpoint on air, they do not allow well reasoned arguments on air, instead they holler, shout, talk over their guests and simply cut their mikes if they don’t like the way the conversation is going. That is the indisputable proof that they can’t rationalize their own viewpoints and arguments.
126 Lainey Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 10:13 AM
NOW maybe Homeland Security will take a firm stance! We cannot let the Right-winged nutjobs explain this one away. I’m tired of it! I don’t care if they go crazy…they’re already crazy!
********************************************
The “Feds” need to go thru the cowards cell phone records with a fine tooth comb. His computer records also. too.
Drag ’em all in , and if the evidence shows a conspiracy , they all go to prison.
UK Lady Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 10:09 AM
austintx @ 116
It would be more impressive if O’Reilly went on someone else’s show on another network to comment, instead of guaranteeing himself huge ratings.
He is a lying, bloviating, psycho POS.
*************************************************
Yeah – Like go on KO and let Janeane Garofalo be the referee !! Pay-per-view and donate the money to Planned Parenthood.
NOW maybe Homeland Security will take a firm stance! We cannot let the Right-winged nutjobs explain this one away. I’m tired of it! I don’t care if they go crazy…they’re already crazy!
Ripley in CT, I cannot blame you for feeling that fear. It is what those who hate want you to feel. It is what they strive for, to make you feel afraid to be who you are, to speak freely of who you are, and this is due to their own fear of the knowledge that if you do speak freely you will show yourself not to be the horrible monster they try to portray, but a loving caring person whom no one needs to fear. If no one fears you then they lose the control and that is unacceptable.
Do not live in fear. Stand proud of who and what you are. You have many here and across the world who will stand proudly beside you. Our support is constant even if not always spoken, but we too must make sure that we speak out against those who attempt to instill fear into our hearts and lives.
Stand tall and proud of yourself just as we stand tall beside you, proud of you!
austintx @ 116
It would be more impressive if O’Reilly went on someone else’s show on another network to comment, instead of guaranteeing himself huge ratings.
He is a lying, bloviating, psycho POS.
@priceless.
I respect your right to watch who you want, and I admire the fact you look at both sides. I am so angry so often, that I cannot always do that.
I do beg to differ on one point. When Beck or O’Reilly have guest on the opposite side of an issue, they yell over them, and it that doesnnt work, they cut them off. Very distasteful.
I along with other Americans (MOST, I hope) am absolutely sickened by the horror of this act and the violent pathology it reveals in America’s cultural divide.
I think NAMING things is very important, and I strongly agree with previous posters that the “pro-life” movement needs to be more appropriately renamed. Simply, ANTI-CHOICE.
and of course TERRORIST for the likes of this killer and his supporters.
Jesus was put to death at the behest of ‘religious people’…the ones that claim exclusive access to God, couldn’t do with a young upstart who spoke of all inclusive tolerance, love and forgiveness…spiritual access for all. I have come to think in my old age now, that the irony of Christian religion as practiced today, serves as a warning to any that might be inclined to actually follow Jesus’s teachings…”See what happens? This could be you!”
@tealwomin #113:
Warm hugs and blessings to you; I admire what you have become through all your horrific trials. I’m glad you’re a mudpup buddy.
Jesus wept.
(((RIPLEY in CT)))
Ripley–big hug from one of your fellow CT mudpuppies! You’re a-okay in my book.
@ripley
My heart broke at your earlier post, and I do understand your fear. I have mentioned previously that my sister is gay, and although things are much different for her (living in Canada) it wasn’t always that way. When she was finished university, she moved from our relatively small community to Toronto. She felt at the time, ( 1970) that she had a better chance at living her life the way she wanted by doing so. She was right of course, but even then a couple of things happened that were horrific.
One of the things, was not being able to share any of her personal life with her co-workers for fear of what might happen regarding her job. She is a professional woman, a chartered accountant, and that field was sort of male dominated at the time.
Once when she was leaving a gay club a couple of young punks followed her to the Gardiner Expressway and ran her off of the road. She was not seriously hurt, but she could have been killed.
Since then of course, things have drastically changed in this country. Today she is married legally, and lives her life openly. She can hold hands with her spouse and nobody gives a second look.
You have prompted me to call her this evening and to ask her to check out this site…and your post. Perhaps she can offer you some comfort…as little as that is.
Laurie
Well – At the very least , this should be interesting to watch.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/01/oreilly-tiller/
Here is another story of a couple who needed this medical procedure. It was written by New York Times editor Bill Keller. His wife is a practicing Catholic, but in the end, it was the best CHOICE for them.
It is called Charlie’s Ghost, if my link doesn’t work.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/29/opinion/charlie-s-ghost.html?scp=3&sq=keller%20+abortion&st=Search
Lainey, Napolitano’s office put out a report about domestic terrorists and the report mentioned abortion clinic violence specifically and the RIght went crazy over it.
How dare the Gov call these abortion protestors potential terrorists!
Really, how wrong could Napolitano be?
Not wrong enough.
my prayers to the family.
trisha::: good point “…It’s about time these people are stopped being called pro-life—-as they are really “anti-choice”.
Lets use Miss CA logic and call ’em OPPOSIT CHOICE…
today i am scared/concerned that the right will see this a a sign to move forward and become more aggressive…abortion, race, LGTBQ these issues will fule their belief that’s it’s Ok to kill in the name of the Bible, in the name of G_d…were they true believers, this would not happen.
…at 16 i was raped by a friend, i didn’t even know i was with child…my mom [a stone-cold Christian], told me. she took me to a doctor and in a few days it was ‘over’. i was so confussed the whole time…i had no time to think about the baby, i was emotional about the rape…the rumors started and i dropped out of high school…there was a trial – which kept everything fresh for a while. when this happened i already knew that i was a lesbian – and the the rape, the baby were all part of my punishment for the sin of being gay. [yes, it is taught in church]. It took years to get over the shame and the name calling. i didn’t understand at the time and out of all my religious teachings, i allowed decisions to be made regarding my life, including getting married, having the perfect family – as i tried to please my family/parents. it was my sin whicfh had caused the rape, so there i was seeking their approval…hoping i got it right. years after the marriage fell apart i was able to see that my mom did what she believed to be best at the time. for a while i blamed her but now i thank her; i was not in a position to handle the responsiblity of a baby.
thanks Ripley in CT !
Priceless – Instead of Martha , have you ever tried Countdown with Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow ?
Please consider my “S” as overwhelmingly offered in support of our friend!
Whatever Ayers did (and, to my understanding, he made SURE no one was in the buildings he was “bombing”) is nowhere NEAR as “TERRORIST” as the jackass who killed someone in their own CHURCH.
Just read somewhere the good doctor’s wife was SINGING IN THE CHOIR at the time!
The comments on “other” blogs are disgusting… I can’t seem to load see4pee (I’ve been banned for saying that showing 90% of one’s thighs is INAPPROPRIATE for a Gov at a Memorial Day event… 🙂 … that might have something to do with it), but I went to the twitter log mentioned earlier here.
The hate and venom spewed is outrageous! I could NEVER affiliate myself with such “in the name of God”.
I don’t think ANYONE is “pro-abortion”. They are “pro-choice” and don’t want the others to attend our doctor appointments with us, telling us what to do.
I wish they would stop making it look like we seek out this option as though it were a decision between white and wheat bread. I doubt there are ANY who take this decision lightly, and I’m sure there are MANY who know that ultimately, it was the right decision for THEM.
My reproductive and health decisions have nothing to do with others. They ought to take heed of that.
Ever notice that NOT ONE anti-choice person has been KILLED, their office BOMBED, or their families THREATENED?
Thank you AKM and yellerdogg.
I am going to cry.
To lighten the mood – Jessy Ventura on Hannity. Quite entertaining: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeMuDN9Ewyc Like what Henry Rollins said; “Fox news is the poor mans Comedy Central”
I did not say I agreed with O’Riley 100 percent of the time. I said I do part company with him on many things. Just as I part company with Obama on some things. (I voted for Obama). No one is perfect, and I don’t spend 24/7 listening to any one person or view point.
K8KZ
someone needs to print out her statement (in Kansas, I think!) that Palin herself thought of aborting Trig!
Toss her OWN words up to her. I’ll bet if Trig is ever able to understand, he’ll be pretty darn upset that his mother -the pro life poster gal- considered aborting him when she found out he was not ‘perfect’.
Double standards teaches volumes.
Ripley, I think my wild rose bush heard your heart today. I have one brave, beautiful bloom that has opened up ahead of all the rest just for you. God has blessed it for being different and sharing its joy.
Priceless @102
May I direct your attention to this article, then tell me O’Rielly is fine if you can.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/6/1/737462/-Bill-OReillys-jihad-against-Dr.-George-Tiller
Valleyindependent.
Amen to that. We are not God. He is the one how judges, not Ranall Terry and his ilk.
Campaign interview by Brian Willaims Oct 25th 2008
Q: Is an abortion clinic bomber a terrorist, under this definition, governor?
PALIN: (Sigh). There’s no question that Bill Ayers via his own admittance was one who sought to destroy our U.S. Capitol and our Pentagon. That is a domestic terrorist. There’s no question there. Now, others who would want to engage in harming innocent Americans or facilities that uh, it would be unacceptable. I don’t know if you’re going to use the word terrorist there.
Now Bystander, there are some very good shows on Fox. Be fair: this problem was NOT created by Fox news. And, while there are some on there I would rather see unemployed, I won’t take the rights away from others to listen to them. Huckachuck being at the top of my list.
This was cold blooded murder. Plain and simple. I can’t get it through the bigots in my party that they can’t have it both ways. Taking a life is wrong. Period. If they don’t want abortion or teen pregenancy’s – then teach your daughters how to prevent it. (listening Bristol?). Rush Limbaugh is NOT the de-facto leader of my party, and I will never accept him as such. He’s a blow hard who needs to retire to his mansion in Miami. Hanity has some good. O’Riley is fine too. Beck and I share the same faith, and that’s pretty much it. They at least will have guests from the other point of views on. (unlike Rush). When they get to shrill, I excercise my freedom of choice and flip over to see what Martha is cooking. Why hasent Powell left? Same reason I have not either. We want our party back. And we will get it back. But leaving the party only gives the bigots what they want.
Lainey Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 8:27 AM
I agree with UK Lady #77 about what palin can do to herself!!!
Her FB page comment stated by K8KZ just confirms that EVERYTHING she does and says is simply a political strategy, an advancement, an agenda…no heart involved…she is loathed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ditto! She had to Blab what her feelings about abortion are….! I’m sick of these “Pro-Hate” people, American Talibani, I think we need to write to Janet Napalino and tell her we are tired of Hate speech being called Free speech! And we will not tolerate Domestic terrorists, whether they be Faux news, GINO, Limpballs, woman’s clinic protesters, etc!
Ripley – You are the best of the best ! Don’t EVER forget it. Maybe it’s time for an “Angel” get together………Certainly when AKM comes to your neck of the woods for The Netroots Nation soiree.
Ripley, redwoodmuse has my “s” as well.
I *Ripley* because you are a fine, upstanding human being, concerned for all humanity. I am proud to call you my mudpup buddy.
Someone, me, EVERYONE should bombard Janet Napolitano with letters stating what AKM & Shannyn did…the anti-choice hate-group, the conservative fundamentalist… we have more to worry about than our borders.
88 CO almost native Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 8:45 AM
@austintx #69:
Thanks for the link; I have contacted Toyota, Comcast (by phone), Best Buy, and WebMD. People need to vote with their wallets-
Next I’ll be contacting our local FOX News-
*************************************************
It DOES work to let sponsors know how you feel.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/03/27/ups-oreilly/
None of these so called pro life people are truly “Pro Life”. If they were, they would not sanction the death penalty or war against other nations. Their actions speak volumes about their true beliefs – that they are only pro life for some.
@austintx #69:
Thanks for the link; I have contacted Toyota, Comcast (by phone), Best Buy, and WebMD. People need to vote with their wallets-
Next I’ll be contacting our local FOX News-
Ripley in CT
I’m so sorry.
Maybe we need another version of MLK’s “I Have a Dream” speech. I have a dream… where each one of us is treated as and accepted as a human being. No worry whether one is black, white, purple or flaming.
Just – human.
keepin’ on…
Nan
Thank you, AKM, for your thoughtful piece, and reminder that we have an obligation to speak out.
Thanks also to the rest of you for sharing your thoughts and heart-wrenching examples of why it is important that abortion remain legal. I know a woman who aborted for good cause, and another who, as a teen-aged mother, put her child up for adoption. For each of them, it was a difficult choice, but the right choice for them in their circumstances. I also know a woman who carried a fetus that died about two months before delivery to term because her doctor thought it best, and who was almost mentally undone by it. I am familiar with the story of a woman who was told by her doctor that carrying a pregnancy to term would literally kill her. She ended up pregnant, opted to keep the child, and she and the child died as a result. Likewise, the story of a pastor who was called to the scene where a desperate young woman bled to death because she tried to induce her own abortion. If we are truly compassionate Christian people, we need to leave the options open and leave the judgment to God.
My heart goes out to the family and friends of Dr. Tiller.
George Tiller Murder Prompts Second Look At Scandalized DHS Report
Excerpt and link;
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/01/george-tiller-murder-prom_n_209701.html
You may recall the enormous controversy that erupted in April over a Department of Homeland Security report that assessed the threat of “right wing extremists.” The story provoked days of nonstop cable chatter, and DHS chief Janet Napolitano ultimately apologized.
Fast forward to the huge and horrible news yesterday that late-term abortion doctor George Tiller was shot dead by a man who reportedly posted on the blog of the anti-abortion group Operation Rescue. Maybe we should take another look at all that criticism?
One passage from the DHS report that provoked nonstop outrage said that right wing extremists “may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration.”
Fox news always refers to President Obama as “pro-abortion” rather than “pro-choice”. It’s about time these people are stopped being called pro-life—-as they are really “anti-choice”.
They only seem to care about life in the womb, after that they could give a damn. I don’t see that as pro-life.
Redwoodmuse
You have my ‘s’
I agree with UK Lady #77 about what palin can do to herself!!!
Her FB page comment stated by K8KZ just confirms that EVERYTHING she does and says is simply a political strategy, an advancement, an agenda…no heart involved…she is loathed.
um, guess that ‘we’ is me and the mouse in my pocket or else there should be an ‘s’ for mudflatters. Your choice.
redwoodmuse
@Ripley in CT – first of all, we mudflatter love you and think you’re a darn fine human being. Second, the reason you felt the old familiar fear is because it is all related. And the sooner we all see that the attack on one, no matter how unlike us, that one may be, is an attack on all of us. I’ve kept the following quote by Martin Niemoller in my wallet and on my desk for years. Translate into today’s times and it is still valid.
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn’t a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
That post I wrote skips around a lot.. sorry. that’s where my mind is today.
The boycott proponents, I think, have correctly identified one aspect of the problem. Limbaugh & Co. make money, for themselves and for those who market them. Take away the market, and they will go away.
The trouble I see is, the money makers reckon they’ve already lost the boycotters. A boycott by folks who do not belong to the target audience for Limbaugh & Co. will simply draw attention to them, recruit new members to the target audience (who will view themselves as persecuted) and make MORE money for them and their sponsors.
The tactics used by the more extreme of the right-wing pressure groups in these Untied States do not yet approach those of the Bolsheviks (a word that means “minority”) in Russia (1917) or the Nazis in Germany (early 1930s), where the rise to power came via public speeches combined with forcible suppression of dissent.
The pressure groups named had (have) the advantage of unity with respect to the rest of us. As William Butler Yeats wrote in a famous poem, “The best lack all conviction, while the worst / Are full of passionate intensity.” I would urge a dispassionate unity in their despite, a wall of silent, stern disapproval, upon which the tumult of the strident may dash, and break, and fall away. That unity, I argue, must be based on evidence and reason, lest we discover that one flavor of raging passion is no better than any other.
I was afraid yesterday. I felt fear. Old fear. Fear about being terrorized. This was terrorism, whether people want to believe it or not. It struck terror in me, because I am one of the people the Far right are railing against right now. I could be attacked simply for who I am.
there’s a joke I use to tell people who wonder about me:
What’s the difference between being Black and being Gay?
You don’t have to tell anyone you’re Black.
I am feared? Come ON. This guy who murdered that doctor is a vigilante. However, he was not alone. I’m certain he wasn’t. People in the church recognized him as someone who had been at protests against Dr. Tiller. And he didn’t protest alone. As far as I am concerned, anyone who supports that fundamentalist line of thinking is guilty of killing that man. This means you, Mr. O’Reilly, you sack of sh*t.
Hate sucks. It makes people like me, or some of you, fearful.
Today, I’m standing up and saying “NO MORE”. I am proud of who I am. Why? Because I am a damn fine human being. I used to believe that my God hated me. As a teenager, coming to terms that I was different, the media demonized my kind. A lot of self-loathing happens. And lasts a long time. I no longer believe that.
I know this killing wasn’t about homosexuality, but the people who did this lump it in to the “sin” category along with abortion. I feel sorry for anyone in their collective families that might need to choose, or that might come out. That’s why many of us live “closeted” lives. Because of this kind of prejudice and hate.
Sorry to go on, but I’m clearly not over this shock yet.
Sarah bloody Palin can go F*&% herself.
Bill O’Rielly’s Jihad against Dr. Tiller
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/6/1/737462/-Bill-OReillys-jihad-against-Dr.-George-Tiller
sandra in oregon Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 7:52 AM
This message from the governor seems focused on the strategy rather than the sin. There should be outrage at the thought of violence. It was probably better not saying anything.
______________________
You know she had to say something, because it is all about HER!!
This message from the governor seems focused on the strategy rather than the sin. There should be outrage at the thought of violence. It was probably better not saying anything.
In the past few days I’ve read that Prevo has at least 2200 in his congregation who apparently advocate his hate/political speech, the women’s shelter is seeing a huge increase in victims and children looking for shelter and relief (some coming with broken bones) and Eddie Burke continues to spout racist comments with no fallout/punishment/accountability.
And then there is the assassination/murder of Dr. Tiller which affects us as a nation, not only because he was apparently one of two doctors who could/would do a rare and necessary medical procedure, but because of what it says about our tolerance for hate speech, publicly inciting violence, and pride in being accessories before the fact of murder . There is no doubt in my mind that Roeder was encouraged by O’Reilly et al as well as Operation Rescue and their ilk. But, he was also encouraged by all of us who tolerate these well-paid hatemongers, by the Christians who stand by and say, “those people don’t speak for me” but don’t take any actions that would differentiate one from the other, and by those who feel it isn’t their problem so they do and say nothing.
Yes, we should demand accountability from the hatemongers, boycott the sponsors who help fund the hate, and speak up in individual situations. Yes, believe me, I know how hard it is. I really do know. And there may be repercussions as there were in my case…but in the end we sleep with ourselves and we have to do the right thing.
I don’t want to pick on AK citizens, but we’ve read so much about what you have going on up there. Why not mobilize locally as well? Like a rock dropped in a pond, that’s how change goes viral.
And the rest of us can work in our own communities as well as demanding accountability on a national level.
Apologies for the soapbox, but I fear if there is no real backlash and demand for accountability
by the American populace at this time, we are in for more domestic terrorism/violent acts of treason and like the Inquisition and the Crusades, the deaths will be credited to God. Remember, McVeigh, the Uni-bomber, Rudolph,etc were all American citizens. We have much more to fear from inside our borders than from the outside (despite all of Bush’s efforts).
redwoodmuse
I have actually printed this “essay” by you AKM and will carry with me for talking points on my travels in LIFE. You have expressed so perfectly my thoughts and feelings I have had trouble finding the words for.
Thank you.
And, this just in from Scarah’s FB page:
“I feel sorrow for the Tiller family. I respect the sanctity of life and the tragedy that took place today in Kansas clearly violates respect for life. This murder also damages the positive message of life, for the unborn, and for those living. Ask yourself, ‘What will those who have not yet decided personally where they stand on this issue take away from today’s event in Kansas?’
Regardless of my strong objection to Dr. Tiller’s abortion practices, violence is never an answer in advancing the pro-life message.”
Governor Sarah Palin
A friends office building shares a common driveway with an abortion clinic here. Sometimes when the wingnuts picket , they run up to his car and wildly wave their signs. He rolls down his window and calmly asks ” Have you ever considered adoption ? There are a lot of Black children that need loving homes.” They shut up and high tail it to the next car to harass.
A beautiful post – I hope Dr. Tiller’s family reads it at some point. Thank you.
Aussiegal77 –
Where in your Bible does it say anything about abortion? I’m just curious because according to my pastor, there’s nothing in the Bible about abortion, and in fact, there’s reason to believe they did not consider the life of a fetus to be the same as the life of a child. In the Old Testament (Deut.?) there are various punishments listed for things like the loss of livestock, blinding or maining, etc. Again, according to my pastor, an injury that resulted in the loss of a fetus carried the same penalty as the loss of livestock, not the loss of a child. I find this really interesting, because, again as my pastor said, there’s really no Biblical backing for the anti-choice position.
I can only echo those who said how your column reflects my thoughts. We have lost a very quiet, determined hero.
My thoughts exactly – I’ve been saying this for a long time. I guess it’s time to act on it. Thanks so much AKM.
Wonderful post AKM. It is way past the time where the right-wing media needs to be held accountable for inciting hatred and violence. We urgently need to examine how the laws in the UK and Canada protect innocent citizens against hate crimes before more terrible things happen.
67 Bystander Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 6:39 AM
A boycott of the advertisers on Fox News- due to its all right wing hate speech format would be an appropriate start.
***************************************************
http://www.debone.com/boycottFoxNewsSponsors.html
Words can’t express the anger right now.
Pro Life my ass! Death Penalty, War, Murder.
They are pro DEATH as long as someone is born. Once one is born, all bets are off and suddenly, your life isn’t quite so important.
Pathetic, hypocrital losers.
A boycott of the advertisers on Fox News- due to its all right wing hate speech format would be an appropriate start.
Lilybart, that is exactly what anti-choice people want. They want to force women to carry to term–even a doomed child who will suffer upon birth.
Bill Keller, the Editor of the NYTimes, wrote an oped a few years ago about a pregnancy that went very wrong for them. NO amniotic fluid meant no lung development. (looking for link)
They waited and waited, hoping that it would correct but it didn’t
They had to make the choice to terminate because there would never be any lung development. It was past 18 weeks at least. The wife, a friend of ours, is Catholic and she really wanted this to end without her “helping” but they did terminate.
The Fundies would have made her carry that dying baby another 15-20 weeks to term and then labor to deliver the dead baby. THAT is what they think we should all have to do. Carry a dead fetus for months more and have people all day asking, oh when are you due, Congrats…blah blah blah…..What do you say?
So painful for everyone and it is NO ONE ELSE’S BUSINESS!
Very well written and I agree whole heartedly. This (and many such killings) made me sick to my stomach.
The President has come out and said he was outraged by the killing. Quite right. The founder of anti abortion group Operation Rescue, Randall Terry, had this to say:
“”George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God. I am more concerned that the Obama Administration will use Tiller’s killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions. Abortion is still murder. And we still must call abortion by its proper name; murder.
Those men and women who slaughter the unborn are murderers according to the Law of God. We must continue to expose them in our communities and peacefully protest them at their offices and homes, and yes, even their churches.””
It’s disturbing that Randall Terry is more concerned about the impact of this killing on the pro-life movement than the killing itself. Sadly – it’s an illustration of the priorities of some conservatives. The lack of compassion for his family is also telling. Political Ideology over the sanctity of human life – how ironic.
I am pro-choice but I do not condone abortion. Is anyone really “pro abortion”? I hate that description. To the fundamentalists, you are either pro life or pro abortion. It’s ridiculous. I don’t condone taking away a woman’s right to choose what she does with her body nor a gay man’s right to choose whom he marries.
For me, as a christian, abortion and homosexuality is clearly not condoned in the bible – but does this mean this should translate to legislating morality? Should my personal beliefs be then projected onto the entire country? Separation of church and state had a reason – the government is secular and must remain so to ensure freedom and justice for ALL. Not just the chosen few. I don’t care to live in a society where only MY rights are protected. That’s not a just or a godly society IMHO.
Full article on HuffPo here –
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/31/randall-terry-operation-r_n_209531.html
Excellent piece AKM. I don’t know why many of you wonder what Palin will say considering she can not handle the simple things, such as following the rules of ethics or the rules of selecting a replacement State senator and yet on this tough, tough subject where the thought process has never been simple or crystal clear for either side we seem to think that Palin might have something thoughtful and intelligent to say. She is not a leader of that capacity and Alaska has suffered for it. Let’s turn the focus to the laws and health care available in Alaska, let’s work to make this kind of health care available to everyone no matter what their background or situation or church of choice.
@Pat
Yes, we’ve already been contacted by the WSJ and another Kansas paper. They want to speak with women who were helped by Dr. Tiller. I’m sure they’ve asked the clinic about the people who were scheduled. Its a devastating time for those women, however, and they’ll need to make a choice about having their names used in a national paper. I hope the journalists won’t require that.
http://ocquill.wordpress.com/2009/05/31/abort-retry-fail-kill/#comments
Pro life my ass. these folks love the death penalty and how many time has that gone wrong?
Nice post AKM.
Of course I agree with everything you have said, and am very glad to see you address this horrible murder.
I fear that we are going to see more violence in the near future. Having Barack Obama in the White House seems to have made some of the crazies even crazier. I worry that their new sense of helplessness will convince others to act out in a similar fashion.
That is one of the reasons I have spoken out so aggressively concerning the anti-discrimination ordinance that is headed to the assembly for a vote.
As we all know our local hate monger Jerry Prevo has made many false allegations about this ordinance designed to inflame his followers into aggressively fighting it.
I worry that one of them will decide that words are not powerful enough and resort to a more physical approach to make their point.
I worry that this may cause anti-gay violence to erupt in our city, and if it does I am going to make damn sure that the blame for that lands right on the doorstep of the Anchorage Baptist Temple.
I am wondering just what constitutes free speech in the states. Here, in Canada, it would be hate speech. An incitement to violence. We enjoy the same freedoms…but where does my freedom end and someone else’s begin?
The likes of Billo the clown, Sean Hannity…Limbaugh…need to be taken to task. A court of law should be looking at them…for conspiracy to commit murder. I am not sure I want to hear what those fools have to say about this. I am upset enough, without having to listen to their crap. They will pay lip service that it was wrong…but the insincerity will ring loud and clear.
My prayers have been going out to the family of Dr. Tiller. Blessings to them.
44 Priceless Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 4:44 AM
I’m glad you have such a good head on your shoulders, and I do appreciate a thoughtful conservative point of view.
However, Rush Limbaugh IS the defacto leader of the republican party. We all know that he is shown great deference by every republican politician.
Colin Powell is quite disgusted by this, saying that every critisisem of Rush, has whomever uttered such critisisem “laying prostate upon the ground” in apology the next day.
The hate filled garbage that comes from this man cannot be taken lightly, for this very reason.
There IS no sensible elected republican in power that will dispute what he says and Michael Steele apologized for referring to Rush as merely an entertainer!
They do not criticize Bill O’Rielly of Sean Hannity either. Why not?
AKM is correct, silence IS consent, worse yet are the sickening apologies.
That sends a CRYSTAL clear message to republicans and everyone else, that this is what the republican party now believes AND stands for.
Here is the latest from Rush comparing Sotomayor to David Duke;
http://mediamatters.org/
Also states that the way to “get promoted in the Barack Obama administration” is “by hating white people.”
LIMBAUGH: I care about whether she’s qualified, and I think she’s disqualified herself. Not only does she lack the often-discussed appropriate judicial temperament, it’s worse than that. She brings a form of bigotry or racism to the court. I don’t care — we’re not supposed to say it, we’re supposed to pretend it didn’t happen, we’re supposed to look at other things, but it’s the elephant in the room. The real question here that needs to be asked — and nobody on our side, from a columnist to a TV commentator to anybody in our party has the guts to ask: How can a president nominate such a candidate? And how can a party get behind such a candidate? That’s what would be asked if somebody were foolish enough to nominate David Duke or pick somebody even less offensive.
39 sauerkraut Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 4:30 AM
Time for the regular people to stand up and make their voices heard.
No. More. Silence.
Silence. Equals. Death.
******************************************
Here are a few places a persons voice can be heard.
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/05/31/in-honor-of-dr-tiller/
JRC, Are you in a position to find a journalist, to do a follow up story. WHat happens now to Dr. Tiller’s patients scheduled for this week & next?
If some are willing to participate this “human interest” story could help calm the emotional response from both sides of the divide.
In the way that Uncle Tom’s Cabin brought an understanding to the issue of slavery that reached many people, and helped them SEE.
Poignant and insightful analysis, as usual. I seem unable to stop being surprised by these hypocritical and in-your-face arrogant so-called “Christians” who tenaciously cling to what parts of the Bible suit their agenda, and rarely involve the actual “Christian” part of the Bible involving Jesus. It’s all the brutal Old Testament stuff that Jesus worked to counter, bringing LOVE to the forefront and trying to put behind the eye for an eye intolerance that even then was outdated.
And moderate Muslims DO speak out against radical Islamic trends, all the time! The US media just can’t bring itself to really present Islam in its complexity, much like we can’t truly address the complex nuances of Christianity, of a judicial nomination to the Supreme Court, of race, of women’s issues, of homophobia, or much else for that matter.
Tossing around in bed last night I realized that the pride of being a citizen of this country I had felt after Nov. 4 2008, for the first time since my childhood innocence eroded, was just about sucked out of after the Sotomayer attacks and then Dr. Tiller’s murder. What a week. I am exhausted.
The American Taliban at work.
These people have no idea how similar there actions/words are to the violent actions of the Taliban.
“Christian” has taken on a whole new meaning in this country. I think Jesus is weeping.
Amen!
Beautifully said AKM.
Thank you, AKM, for your eloquence. My sympathies go out to Dr. Tiller’s family, staff and friends- he tried to minister to a population that the religious conservatives insist must bear children, and then leaves them to cope with life the best they can. How is that pro-life or Christian? Jesus weeps at this abomination.
Those who condone this murder are not Christian, they are not pro-life, they are not anti-choice: they are pro-hate.
@UK Lady
Yes, you are right. Please see my post above.
Instead of kneejerk reactions to the abortion debate, people need some real facts and education as to why these late term abortions happen. They happen because of late (this is unavoidable in most cases) diagnosis of terrible afflictions. They would cause the baby to suffer an agonising birth and a very short (minutes or hours) lifespan, also spent in pain.
Other reasons would be the certain death of the mother, leaving other children motherless and future babies not to be born.
I wouldn’t think that many women get to late term and have an abortion just because they changed their minds. Most if not all grieve heinously for their lost child.
And on another note. I sometimes listen to Hanity. Never Rush. Can’t stand him since the election, when this 3 time married pasty white guy, fawned all over Palin. And rarely O’Riely. I listen to Fox News Channel while driveing. I love Brit Hume, and listen when he’s on. Shep Smith too. I also listen to CNN and BBC and Martha Stewart (have sirrus in the car) But, I have my head and braincells moving in the right direction. I don’t think any of these guys would incite the gunning down on anyone. HOWEVER, nutcases from the far right extreme, would take it 3 steps further and do exactly that. It’s a mind set for some. They kill in the name of their God – which is NOT my God.
18 Diane Says:
May 31st, 2009 at 9:58 PM
This murder is a call to action.
I for one have not done enough to end the hatred spewed out daily by the right on every topic they feel justified in condemning liberals.
* ** * ** * ** * ** * **
Me neither Diane. This is something I have been getting very concerned about. When I read the rabid type of anti-choice comments on blogs I want to write back, but can’t always formulate my thoughts into good concise rational (at last what I think might come across as rational to them) reasons for why I defend a women’s right to choose, even though plenty are out there. I haven’t ever been in a converation where anyone said their belief was that abortion was murder, but once again, if I was, I don’t think I have my thoughts together enough to make a strong statement – it doesn’t have to change the other person’s mind, but it should gently or not so gently let them know that no matter how they feel about it, there are good, legitimate reasons that they might even agree with on why overturning Roe v. Wade as the law of the land would be an incredibly bad thing for the malority of American citizens.
So, what can we do? I read on some other site we can make donations to Planned Parenthood in Dr. Tiller’s name. This other site also mentioned another group we can donate in Dr; Tiller’s name to I hadn’t heard of called Medical Students for Choice. Sorry for no links or more info.
I may give directly to my local Planned Parenthood clinic.
I frequent a message board for women who’ve terminated a pregnancy for medical reasons. There are a few there who’s doctor was Dr. Tiller.
Late-term abortions happen not because women “forgot” to have an abortion in their first trimester or decided on a whim that they didn’t want to have a child. Late-term abortions happen to women who are carrying a much wanted pregnancy but have been given a poor prenatal diagnosis through typical pregnancy screening. I know many of these women. We’ve even written a book called “Our Heartbreaking Choices”. http://www.amazon.com/Our-Heartbreaking-Choices-Interrupting-Much-Wanted/dp/0595530478?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223040327&sr=8-1
I declined to write my story for the book because it was too painful for me to revisit that time of my life in that way. Today I simply am an ear and a resource for women who are in the same situation I was in (higher-order multi-fetal pregnancy and faced with selective fetal reduction).
The hard-core anti-choice activists will never understand why late-term abortions happen. However, the general mainstream pro-choice and anti-choice people who’ve never really thought about it will be surprised to find out why and how this happens. If nothing else, I hope Dr. Tiller’s death will open the eyes of the general public to the reasons why his service was so necessary, and what will happen to the women who were scheduled for termination this week. I’m quite afraid for them.
AKM … one of your most insightful, thoughtful, profound and moving pieces you’ve ever written.
One was we can all refuse to be silent is to put pressure on the advertisers of extremists like Rush, etc. Email their sponsors, call them, refuse to buy their products until they quit giving money to these clowns. We can not afford to be silent any longer, nor can we afford to support those who support domestic terrorists.
Thank you AKM for speaking out.
I am a conservative republican. There are those in our party, I feel need to GET OUT. Palin being one of them. THIS is what is wrong with the far right religious nuts who have taken over our party. They get their message out at the end of a gun. Now this jerk will be lauded as a hero to many. Not to me. He is a cold blooded killer who needs swift and sure justice. To kill someone – anyone – is wrong. Period. This doctor made a choice of professions. But, it was HIS choice. He used HIS Free agency to choose. I respect that freedom, and that choice. It’s what I served in the Miltary to uphold and protect. Not one of the women who came to him, did so without making a CHOICE herself. None were dragged kicking and screaming into his office. All went willingly. I don’t always agree with decisions made by others. However, I will always respect the decision they make.
Even Palin admited she considered that choice. But at least she had the choice to make.
These “bloviating gas bags” refer to themselves, as do many others, as “entertainers”.
It has become a catch phrase “entertainer”, in order to exonerate them from all the foul things they say.
My eye!
Rick Sanchez on CNN, had the temerity to say that “Rush Limbaugh is just an entertainer, when you meet him, he’s a regular guy, a really nice guy, he’s a really nice guy”
I had to replay it on my PVR, TWICE, because I could not believe my eyes and ears!
Lets just say Sanchez did NOT convince me and he is on a list I have, entitled “Horses Ass”
It is a FACT that, as the campaign wore on last year and Palin was speaking of Obama “palin’ around with terrorists”, “real America” generally inciting the crowds, the FBI reported a sharp spike in death threats against Obama DIRECTLY RELATED TO PALIN’S HATE SPEECH. All the chanting USA,USA,USA, it sounded just like Nazi Germany.
Words mean something, the pen IS mightier than the sword.
How do you think Osama Bin Laden convinced HIS followers?
It wasn’t free chicken at KFC!!
Folks need to be held accountable, when they words are consistently linked to acts of violence.
Great post AKM and great thoughtful comments, which I have come to expect here. Will comment on comments one at a time so thay don’t get too long.
pvazwindy Says:
May 31st, 2009 at 9:51 PM
WOW-Just watched that interview with Bryan and it refreshed my memory. If she skirts the issue like she did in that interview, just another nail in the coffin. And if she Brings up Bill Ayers again there will be a backlash against her like she has never witnessed before. Will she waffle?
* ** * **
I remember her reluctance to answer that question. It may have been one of the few times she a) listened to the question, and b) thought before she spoke. Of course, what she was thinking probably had more to do with how she’d appear than what she actually believes, but then, politicians do have to think about that and walk a fine line.
Spealing of fine lines: Generally, if she’s breathin’, she’s waffling, but even she must realize how carefully she must say something, if she does make a statement. It would not ruin my day if she offered up a heartfelt condemnation of the killing of Dr. Tiller with no political overtones whatsoever and I might think the better of her.
2 Nan Says: May 31st, 2009 at 9:17 PM
When are we going to realize that those who spew the hate are contributing to the general “acceptance” of murder as a means of making a statement.
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We realize it already. The question is when are we going to work together to get those &%$#heads to STFU. People like Limbaugh, etc., work long and hard to get the different sides to constantly be at each other’s throats. Until we stop taking their bait, we will never be able to work cooperatively to put them out of business.
But their day will come. Remember Tom Metzger? He, too, thought he was invincible. But he instigated violent acts one time too many and woosh… there went his millions. I hope to see the day something similar happens to the yappers because the money is what drives their DOH – drivel of hate. (No, I will not call it “speech.”)
1 pvazwindy Says: May 31st, 2009 at 9:16 PM
I wonder what Palin will have to say about this tragic event
________________
We can only hope she keeps her yap shut and instead focuses on the very real issues of Alaska. No one needs to hear her muddleheaded and inflammatory “thoughts.”
AKM writes: “They like to talk about the constitution. But when people who don’t think like they do use the first amendment to speak up, they are demonized. They are called unpatriotic. They are called ungodly, and immoral. They are targeted. ”
_____________
I have many wonderful neighbors who are republicans. Why they allow the so-called leadership to control (or try to control) so many things in their lives is beyond my understanding. No one dares to speak out. I’d say now is a good time to do so. The real people of the republican party need to stand up, smack people like Hannity, Coulter, Limbaugh, and O’Reilly upside the head, and tell them to STFU. People like the 4 horseshi*s of the apocalypse encourage the violent wacko’s to commit ungodly acts. Time for the regular people to stand up and make their voices heard.
No. More. Silence.
Silence. Equals. Death.
In the UK, people like O’Rielly, Beck, Coulter etc. etc., would either be jailed or laughed off the screen. It is not called free speech here, it is called incitement to hate crime.
I have come to learn over the last couple of years how much the US defends and protects the right to free speech. What I don’t understand is why entities such as Fox are given credence by anyone who is a rational thinker.
Why does the WH have a FOX news correspondent?, why do democrats or rational people go on the air and give them oxygen? They should be ostracised by all, just plain ignored. The only things that should be reported are when they cross the line, and then with derision and scorn. They would end up talking to themselves and therefore dull to watch.
Anyone who is hijacked by the likes of O’Rielly’s programme should immediately call 911, and repeat the word loofah until the police arrive.
Jo says ‘Why aren’t we marching in the streets about this?” You’re not marching in the streets because you’re alone in a room tying ‘why aren’t we marching in the streets’? instead of calling all your friends and all your neighbours and saying — let’s meet tonight at 7 in [your community’s public centre/park/square] xx; bring a candle and your kids and your partners.
Your impulse to march in the streets is healthy and matters and changes things: it makes the clear statement of community memebrs to each other that this is not OK. Mass public protest — quiet or noisy — happens all the time in European countries and is so important for solidarity and a sense of collective strength.
The bombed cities of Europe are a testament to the danger of staying silent and the false idea of ‘it can’t happen here.’ Spntaneous PUBLIC gatherings, big and small, also helps people cope emotionally wth the shock of events.
(We (outside US) couldn’t understand why Americans didn’t hit the streets in protest when Bush/Cheney stopped counting votes and– as we now know –stole the election. Most of you didn’t vote for him and you were the majority; the people of the US could have refused to accept the results.) The tea parties are fake orchestrated populism–don’t let that stop you from exercsing your real collective power. Esepcially now!
This is no time to be alone in your room waiting for a worse incident before you’ll grab a candle and a blanket and meet with others in your community to say ‘we don’t do this.’ Most people want to do something but somebody has to start.
Oh – They are not being silent………they are twittering their hateful , sorry asses off………
http://carnalnation.com/content/7628/3/tweets-hate-crazy-right-twitters-about-murder-dr-tiller
RE: Bakers Dozen.
As I read this, I am on one hand saddened, on the other hand inspired. After reading AKM’s profound article, and, on the other hand, Bakers Dozen (#13), I am reminded yet again of what a wonderful forum we have here on the Mudflats. Here are two individuals on opposite sides of the abortion issue, who can state their beliefs in a compassionate, literate and civilized manner, each respecting the others ideas. No name calling, etc, just sympathy for the doctor’s family, and for the state of the nation, world, whatever, that would nurture feelings so violent that it would lead to murder. Thanks, AKM and Bakers Dozen!
To the Tiller family and Dr. Tiller:
Thankyou for the courage and commitment. I am so sorry for your loss. Women everywhere thank you for caring for the truth and health of women way above and beyond the call of duty. This ultimate sacrifice should not have been. Dr. Tiller thankyou for being a wonderful doctor and human being.
Thankyou AKM for saying it all.
the hypocrisy of it all !!!
Well said!
P.S. After reading some of the comments from people on the right, I can’t ever call them pro-life again.
Thank you, AKM, I have been grieving about this all day. My heart is heavy, and my eyes are full. It’s probably why I can’t sleep.
Dr. Tiller was a heroic man. I am saddened beyond belief that this is happening again, and all because we have a Democratic president (and yeah, he’s black, too). There were no doctor murders under Bush and six under Clinton. Got that from HuffPo.
This has got to stop.
Silence is consent.
Yes. Yes!
No truer words have ever been blogged.
Silence is consent! Remember these words … all it takes for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.
No more silence!
Eloquent and moving. Thank you, AKM.
From: http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/scarce/sarah-palin-dodges-question-anti-abortion-t
Who does this sound like below?
The Department of Homeland Security issued an internal report last month which Director Janet Napolitano received criticism from conservative groups for saying just that, defining rightwing extremism as:
A movement of rightwing groups or individuals who can be broadly divided into those who are primarily hate-oriented, and those who are mainly antigovernment and reject federal authority in favor of state or local authority. This term also may refer to rightwing extremist movements that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration. (also known as far right, extreme right
Thank you AKM for a thoughtful and thought provoking post.
ITA with yellerdogg, the most appropriate description for Dr. Tiller:
“He was a health care professional, an OB/GYN and in my eyes he was a hero.”
What so many of the Anti Choice folks REFUSE to believe is that late term abortions are normally done to save the life of the Mother! They aren’t performed for convenience, cosmetics, or a day off of work! These are painful choices for the woman that has to live (or not) with the ramifications.
On another board, there is a woman who started bleeding 2 DAYS after the reqd date (becoming a “late term pregnancy”). After 6 pints of blood transfused, she was given mere minutes to make her choice in order to save her life! Such a dilemma, should she try to save the child she desperately wanted, or leave motherless the toddler she already had at home. Two decades later, she still grieves heartrendingly and has posted very eloquently to change the perceptions of the Anti Choice people.
So Dr. Tiller was doing his best to keep his patients ALIVE. Truly a Hero! My condolences to his family.
Thank you for giving words to my outrage at Dr. Tiler’s murder and the general hypocrisy of the conservative agenda.
“And when does the first amendment cross the line and become incitement to violence?”
I’ve been brooding over this question all day. Our right to free speech is so fundamental. How would we enforce a broader definition of incitement to violence, without opening the way for abuse of power by corrupt leaders of either party?
Daily K has an excellent diary entry “The George Tiller I Knew” by Loree920. She writes of the man as a healing professional that directly impacted her life. I highly recommend that you all read this thoughtful piece.
In a 1991 televised interview, Dr. Tiller spoke of how he had been presented with the challenge of treating victims of back alley abortions. His own involvement came as a result of discovering when he took over his father’s practice’ that the senior Dr. Tiller had been providing (illegal) abortions since the 1940’s when one of his patients (to whom he had refused an abortion) died at the hands of a back alley butcher.
I lived in Wichita during the so called ‘Summer of Mercy’ in 1991 when thousands of protesters came to town for weeks at a time and would try to block patient access to Dr. Tiller’s clinic. Months later I escorted a patient into the clinic and faced protesters who said the most vile things and tried to stop us.
Throughout it all, for some 25 years Dr. Tiller courageously met the challenge of providing health care, especially reproductive health care to women who had no where else to turn.
Please do not refer to him as an abortion doctor. He was a health care professional, an OB/GYN and in my eyes he was a hero.
I just don’t even know what to say; there just don’t seem to be words for it…
It is time to speak out against hate and condemn those that spew it.
We will not tolerate domestic terrorism. Shannyn Moore said it. These are domestic terrorists.
I say…time to use the Patriot Act for what it was intended. Let it bite the hands that made it. Little did they know it would be turned against them. We are a nation of laws. Time to start using them.
My prayers are with the Tiller family. From what I’ve read Dr. Tiller was a loving, compassionate man who cared deeply for his patients and treated them gently and with dignity. He practiced his Christianity in his daily life, his work and in his love for his patients.
http://www.aheartbreakingchoice.com/kansasstories.html
I have always called them Pro Birth…after that it is all down hill. I am so sorry for the family. He must have been a very dedicated doctor to continue under the horrible conditions of his practice in tiring to save the lives of the moms.
So so sad.
Thank you also,too, AKM. I have been looking for Words for a situation in my private life for the last week and you said it so simply. Silence is consent.
thank you.
I send my condolences to the Tiller family.
Sarah is going to clean this up in her word salad and tie it neatly in a bow and pretend that she is sadden by the “terrorist act” which she will probably call an unfortunate incident and then behind closed doors thank her “god” for opening that door for Mr. Tiller.
Mark my word, she will try to pretend that she does not condone such acts but in reality she secretly thinks Mr. Tiller deserves what he got because his profession conflicts with what she believes.
A very well-written article on a sad, sad day.
@pvazwindy
sorry, I tried to listen to that Brian Williams interview again, and I can’t. I couldn’t finish watching. Her words just swirl around in my brain and I don’t hang on to the meanings…if there is one (I doubt it). Thankfully, we are getting beyond her being an infamous curiosity and her true colors are showing themselves vividly…especially to the ppl who were mesmerized by her unusualness.
AKM, the first thing that I thought of when I read your very well written post is Amen. Once again you have gone to the heart of the problem. All of us who find this violence in the name of “pro-life” appalling need to speak out and break our silence.
And Diane, I agree that we need to stop calling this group “pro-life”. Anti-choice is a more apt description. After all calling them pro-life implies that anyone who doesn’t agree with them is anti-life, which couldn’t be farther fromt the truth.
We lived in Wichita for three years before we moved to Washington state, and Kansas is my home state. I was horrified when I heard the news, not only that it happened, but that it happened in a place where people used to behave in a civil manner to one another, even when they disagreed.
And, yes, why aren’t we marching to protest this sort of hatred that is being thrown at us every day? Or will that make the violence worse? Is there a better way to respond? Because, as AKM says so eloquently, silence is consent.
@Diane
From now on, we should not be calling them the pro life movement.
They are the anti choice movement.
The party of violence, for anything that they do not like, feel threatened by.
From preemptive wars to the death penalty from violent opposition to abortion, to allow and justify violence in the name of religion.
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you go, girl! from now on, I will start calling the conservative (conservative to what degree?) party as how you so intelligently described…thanks. I already view them that way, so why not call it like you see it.
This murder is a call to action.
I for one have not done enough to end the hatred spewed out daily by the right on every topic they feel justified in condemning liberals.
They have ignored the growing hatred and increased violence in their own party.
The culture of life party is violent and sees no need to control their actions.
They were horrified and angry, when the agency that was founded to PROTECT them, Homeland Security, warned of the increased violence of the Right and conservatives.
This will be a “Justifiable homicide” in the minds of the right.
From now on, we should not be calling them the pro life movement.
They are the anti choice movement.
The party of violence, for anything that they do not like, feel threatened by.
From preemptive wars to the death penalty from violent opposition to abortion, to allow and justify violence in the name of religion.
WOW-Just watched that interview with Bryan and it refreshed my memory. If she skirts the issue like she did in that interview, just another nail in the coffin. And if she Brings up Bill Ayers again there will be a backlash against her like she has never witnessed before. Will she waffle?
There are some bonkers people on the far left, too, but right now, the right wingnuts take the prize for sheer craziness, myopic vision, and a total lack of caring or respect for any life of any sort that doesn’t agree with them or gets in the way of their personal agenda.
Ahab’s got to kill his whale, no mater what the cost, who is hurt, or whether it’s right or not.
Jesus preached the golden rule. None of us is perfect, but if you’re not trying to follow it, you are not a Christian. It doesn’t matter if you’ve been baptised, born again, go to church, or pray. He also said, in effect, that the two greatest commandments are to love God and love your neighbor. If you aren’t trying to love your neighbor, how can you call yourself a Christian!
Thanks for providing this soap box, AKM.
Amen…well said…well written, AKM. I can’t think of a word that magnifys the hypocrisy of a whole segment of our society. Those who can’t see that they are the very thing they criticize. How sad.
Very well written. Thank you.
I’m so saddened by this. Maybe, just maybe, Fox will back off the of the Obama hate. Many felt something like this would happen but thought they were going to stir someone to kill Obama.
They talk about killing innocents.
How many innocents have bee killed–on both sides–in Iraq? Will they condemn those deaths? Or do they discount them because our soldiers are serving their country and the Iraqi deaths were Muslim (forget that Christians live there, too)?
I am truly pro life. I believe in proecting every life, and that includes pregnant women who find themselves in untenable situations. If we really are pro life, then we support the people already here so the instances of rape, incest, and unwanted pregnancy are dramatically reduced and a compassionate dialogue can take place about how to help those with problem pregnancies.
Pro life to me doesn’t just mean let it be born; it means help everyone thrive.
My condolences to Dr. Tiller’s family. You have born the threats to his life because of his convictions for decades. I don’t know that I could have done the same, and I salute you for your own bravery and dedication to your husband/father/grandfather.
Shannyn got it right in her post at Huff. It’s terrorism people, domestic terrorism. Let’s call it for what it is.
Brian Williams interview with Palin,
The discussion on abortion and terrorism starts at the one minute mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__1Zn0F3F80
Lord have mercy on us all.
AKM, my dear, this is a very well-written and thoughtful response.
You get to the heart of the contradictions in the conservative view of the world.
Thank you
This makes me feel physically ill. Why aren’t we marching in the streets about O’Reilly and the rest of those crackheads and the intolerance they breed.
Wait, the killer killed the doctor in a church? I only heard the tail end of this on NPR. Sounds like “my religion is better than your religion.” Which sound like the Sunnis and the Shiites and the Wahabis and Hamas and the PLO. The Christians didn’t want to be left out of killing others in the name of religion, I see. I hope when the religious right looks in the mirror they see the devil. What happened to that commandment of not killing?
For Palin’s sake, I hope that she clearly thinks about what she might say. For those who opposed this physician I think the majority would use peaceful protests and always stay within the law. And it was this extreme right that was calling for Napolitano’s resignation, when she warned us of these radicals. Gunned down in a place of worship, what a sad commentary we are witnessing. Tomorrow I just might watch FOX, to hear the responses of O’Reilly and Hannity.
pvazwindy
On YouTube there are several videos of an interview Brian (?) Williams did with SP, and her (non)answer to the question about clinic bombings etc was “telling.” You can run a search on YouTube.
Rummaging through the word salad, I got the impression that she allowed how it was “wrong,” but didn’t seem to want to go as far as calling it domestic terrorism.
Something like that.
Palin is part of the American Taliban. In private she will rejoice, in public she will remain silent.
What do they think about this?
What do they think about the fact that Tiller was forced to install bullet proof glass at his clinic for protection.
What do they think about the fact that Tiller was shot in both arms in 1993?
What do they think about the fact that Tiller’s clinic was bombed in 1995?
What do they think about the fact that Tiller often traveled with a bodyguard for protection?
What do they think about the fact that Tiller had asked federal prosecutors to step up investigations of vandalism and other threats against the clinic out of fear that the incidents were increasing and that Tiller’s safety was in jeopardy? (Surveillance camera wires had been cut…roof damaged to the point that rainwater went spilling into the clinic.)
What do they think? I’m sure that they will silently praise the man who murdered Mr. Tillman, while publicly declaring that this is not the way to go about changing minds, and then once again they will go on with their relentless crusade of hate and incitement to violence.
If I remember correctly, Charles Manson didn’t kill anyone on that day when Sharon Tate and the others were butchered. But he remains in prison, because he was seen as having incited that murder spree, and he is paying the price.
The Secret Service stated that the death threats and other threats – against Obama – spiked after some of SP’s stump speeches. If something *had* happened, to my mind, her words would have played a part. And she would most likely have said, “I didn’t suggest any such thing.” And that would have been that.
When are we going to realize that those who spew the hate are contributing to the general “acceptance” of murder as a means of making a statement.
Some years back, a black mother sued the KKK (HQ, I think) for having “caused” the death of her son. He death was a hate crime. The mother won her civil suit, and it bankrupted the KKK for years.
Maybe that’s what it’s going to take. I dunno.
I wonder what Palin will have to say about this tragic event