Netroots Nation – Bill Clinton
When I heard that President Bill Clinton was going to be speaking at the Netroots Nation conference this year, I was pretty excited. I noted the irony that I hadn’t ever blogged about Bill Clinton until last week when I had noted with gratitude the role that he had played in freeing the two journalists being held captive in North Korea, and mentioned how he had redeemed himself a bit in my eyes for NAFTA, and the Telecommunications Act of 1996 among other things. I hold grudges sometimes, but I’m not beyond recognizing that he has had some pretty amazing achievements in his life.
I was among the 2000 or so convention goers who were enjoying the company at the convention center in Pittsburgh, eating cheese and drinking wine while overlooking the river, and waiting with anticipation for the former president to speak. The doors opened, and people who had been waiting in lines, rushed through the doors and headed for tables near the stage. I got a great seat.
Some politicians have a certain kind of charisma, personal magnetism and charm that fills a room. One could argue that in some ways Bill Clinton and Sarah Palin have this in common. The difference is that Bill Clinton is one smart cookie. As he started talking, the room began to shrink, and finally it began to feel like we were the only two in the room. He acknowledged the impact that bloggers had on the election, and how the netroots would be instrumental in defining policy, and organizing a coherent and clear progressive voice in what he hoped would be a Democratic era that would last for the next 50 years.
I had not been prepared to enjoy his talk as much as I did. “Bill Clinton is brilliant,” I found myself thinking. I may not have agreed with everything he did, but if he had remained president for the eight years we had George W. Bush in the White House, the world would be a different place, of that I had no doubt.
It was while I was both listening and thinking about the Clinton years that I heard someone yell out. They wanted an apology for “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.” My blood boiled. I had just attended a health care press conference in Anchorage, where hecklers were trying to disrupt the speakers by yelling out insults, and I was not in the mood to put up with bad behavior in this supposedly “safe zone” of active progressives trying to come together in a unified way to make the country better.
Would Clinton bravely soldier on, ignoring the taunt? Would the offender be asked to leave? Others started to tell the guy to be quiet, and sit down. The tension was palpable. And then Bill Clinton did an interesting thing. He looked right at the heckler, pointed his finger and took the question head on. Here’s what he said:
Lane Hudson (screaming from the audience): Mr. President, will you call for a repeal of DOMA and Don’t Ask Don’t Tell right now? Please.Bill Clinton: … You want to talk about Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, I’ll tell you exactly what happened. You couldn’t deliver me any support in the Congress and they voted by a veto-proof majority in both houses against my attempt to let gays serve in the military, and the media supported them. They raised all kinds of devilment. And all most of you did was to attack me instead of getting me some support in the Congress. Now that’s the truth.
Secondly — it’s true! You know, you may have noticed that presidents aren’t dictators. They voted — they were about to vote for the old policy by margins exceeding 80 percent in the House and exceeding 70 percent in the Senate. The gave test votes out there to send me a message that they were going to reverse any attempt I made by executive order to force them to accept gays in the military. And let me remind you that the public opinion now is more strongly in our favor than it was 16 years ago, and I have continued supporting it. That John Shalikashvili, who was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under me, was against Don’t Ask — was against letting gays serve — is now in favor of it. This is a different world. That’s the point I’m trying to make.
Let me also say something that never got sufficient publicity at the time: When General Colin Powell came up with this Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, it was defined while he was chairman much differently than it was implemented. He said: ‘If you will accept this, here’s what we’ll do. We will not pursue anyone. Any military members out of uniform will be free to march in gay rights parades, go to gay bars, go to political meetings. Whatever mailings they get, whatever they do in their private lives, none of this will be a basis for dismissal.’ It all turned out to be a fraud because of the enormous reaction against it among the middle-level officers and down after it was promulgated and Colin was gone. So nobody regrets how this was implemented any more than I do. But the Congress also put that into law by a veto-proof majority, and many of your friends voted for that, believing the explanation about how it would be eliminated. So, I hated what happened. I regret it. But I didn’t have, I didn’t think at the time, any choice if I wanted any progress to be made at all. Look, I think it’s ridiculous. Can you believe they spent — whatever they spent — $150,000 to get rid of a valued Arabic speaker recently?
And, you know, the thing that changed me forever on Don’t Ask Don’t Tell was when I learned that 130 gay service people were allowed to serve and risk their lives in the first Gulf War, and all their commanders knew they were gay; they let them go out there and risk their lives because they needed them, and then as soon as the first Gulf War was over, they kicked them out. That’s all I needed to know, that’s all anybody needs to know, to know that this policy should be changed.
Now, while we’re at it, let me just say one thing about DOMA, since you — the reason I signed DOMA was — and I said when I signed it — that I thought the question of whether gays should marry should be left up to states and to religious organizations, and if any church or other religious body wanted to recognize gay marriage, they ought to. We were attempting at the time, in a very reactionary Congress, to head off an attempt to send a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage to the states. And if you look at the 11 referenda much later — in 2004, in the election — which the Republicans put on the ballot to try to get the base vote for President Bush up, I think it’s obvious that something had to be done to try to keep the Republican Congress from presenting that. The President doesn’t even get to veto that. The Congress can refer constitutional amendments to the states. I didn’t like signing DOMA and I certainly didn’t like the constraints that were put on benefits, and I’ve done everything I could — and I am proud to say that the State Department was the first federal department to restore benefits to gay partners in the Obama administration, and I think we are going forward in the right direction now for federal employees. …
But, actually, all these things illustrate the point I’m trying to make. America has rapidly moved to a different place on a lot of these issues, and so what we have to decide is what we are going to do about it. Right now, the Republicans are sitting around rooting for the president to fail, as nearly as I can see.
Jaws dropped. This was Bill Clinton’s off-the-cuff reaction to a situation that might have paralyzed someone else, or derailed their speech. He didn’t ask for the guy to be removed, he didn’t ignore him, he didn’t get flustered. He did not miss a beat, turned to the guy and addressed it head on. Then I was stuck in a strange place. I know a lot more about this issue than I did before, and it’s because someone asked about it. I didn’t like the way it was done, but I found reason to be pleased with the content of the response, and the way in which an intrusive interruption was handled by someone with an obvious command of the facts, and the confidence in his own principles to answer.
At the end of the speech, Clinton wrapped up and said that he had enjoyed that exchange. He likes debate, and having the opportunity to bring some of these things out on the table.
When all was said and done, it fell out like it always does, in various shades of grey even though it would sometimes be easier to live in a black and white world. Clinton did things I didn’t like, but I gained a new respect for him. Interruptions and shouting at speakers is disrespectful to all those who have come to listen, but can also raise issues that need to be talked about and give us an opportunity to see how our leaders react under pressure.
I was pleased to see a thoughtful piece on Huffington Post written by the person who stood up and shouted, giving us a reason to see grey.
This IS Bill Clinton. He’s done this before, respond to hecklers with well spoken, totally off-the-cuff, brilliant responses. He’s a Rhodes scholar for goodness sake. And since he’s not pres anymore, he can let it rip.
I heard him speak on the Obama trail and the Kerry campaign where I actually shook his hand! His presence literally took my breath way. I don’t know what it is, magnetism, charisma but also this odd intimacy that makes you feel like he’s only talking to you, like AKM said. Like he’s your neighbor you just invited in for coffee… you know, other than the former president of the largest superpower in the world.
Then he stops talking and the crowd goes C-R-A-Z-Y. That’s where the rock star thing comes in (when he enters and exits a room). Women, men, small children, animals, everyone wants to be near him! LOL Electrifying.
He was so amazingly good for this country, I’ve long ago given him a pass on what he didn’t do or didn’t do well.
AKM,
Wow thanks for that wonderful commentary!
We all grow and evolve (hopefully).
We all coexist and do the best we can (hopefully).
Bill Clinton is a statesman of the people, humble and educated, always learning, open minded,and understanding of compromise.
I can see why Hillary could forgive his weakness….sh*t …
President Clinton’s reply is great reading. I have been nursing a theory that President Obama is taking some actions with a longer term strategy in place that is similar to Clinton’s actions. For example, Obama is being criticized for continuing some court cases that defend Bush’s actions. I believe the intent is for the courts to rule against the actions, thereby having it clearly stated that a future President is prohibited from doing some things Bush did. The most notable being the entire “enemy combatant” thing.
Bones AK and everyone else…Bill Clinton is smarter in his sleep than we are all collectively! ( No I am not asking for “smart alecky” replies to that “sleep” remark). The man is smart! Rhodes scholar smart~ Chrasima?? He redefines it! AKM, don’t tell me you weren’t mesmerized (or something moister than that). I have met him and it is impossible to deny his “seductiveness”….politcally or otherwise.
IMO we can’t let these town hall hecklers stop others from asking questions as this young man did..I had figured out log ago that bell Clinton had no choice but to sign that bill if he wanted anything at all to go thru and isn’t it a shame that in the first gulf war gays served and as soon as the war was over they were forced out of the service they were in.Former President Clinton said very well what happens and that congress itself holds a lot of power and can over ride a president.We all need to keep this in mind with the health care reform bills.I am still hopeful that a public option will come out of this as more and more people see that so many republicans backed this same “death panel” discussion not that long ago.
That played out as a very special moment for more people than just Mr. Clinton. I’m glad he got to say that. And the piece from ‘the heckler’ was wonderful to read. I had wondered as I read Clinton’s reply what ‘the heckler’ must have been thinking as he listened to the former president give him an answer to his question.
When President Bill Clinton was re-elected for his second term, my mother-in-law, a fundamentalist, called my husband. She was crying and wailing that America was on a fast train track to hell. My husband let her continue for a minute before interrupting her to tell her he had voted for President Clinton and so had I. He then attempted to explain why but it was not well received.
Though President Clinton used poor judgement in his personal life (re: the Lewinsky scandal), he is an incredibly intelligent man and a brilliant politician. We did not not agree with all of his policies but we feel our country was better off for him having served. We also admire the work he does with his Global Initiative and the work he and President George Bush (the elder) have done for victims of Hurricane Katrina and the tsunmai.
I have always enjoyed hearing him speak. During the campaign, it was rumored he was going to be coming to my town. I can’t tell you how excited I was for a chance to meet him. At the last minute, Senator Clinton came instead. There was still a very large crowd and great support for her but oh how I would have loved to have heard him speak in person! I envy you, AKM and Shannyn!
thank you AKM for describing your feelings/thoughts as that exchange was unfolding. Mine were very similiar.
I admit I have a “preconceived” opinion on President Clinton based on his actions while in office. I admit I thought I would hear a vague inspirational lecture when I first viewed the video. I admit I have a sincere negative view on “hecklers”. I admit I was pleasantly surprised by the outburst, the audience reaction, President Clinton’s response and the young mans response on HuffPo.
God it’s good to wake up in America!!! 🙂
You know, I would kill to be a fly on the wall with Bill Clinton and Barack Obama spending a couple of hours discussion US and world affairs.
One of the things I totally appreciate about Obama- and he does annoy me at times- I know he’s THINKING about things. Every single time something went to Bush, he responded with a gut-level “what’s good for business.” I may disagree with what Obama does- I did disagree with what Clinton did, on occasion- but it’s nice to know somebody smart is thinking things through and coming up with a reasoned response… even if I don’t like it.
AKM, I felt like I was there with you, too, and I appreciate Pres. Bill Clinton more. While he was president, I didn’t really like him…partly because I didn’t get some of the progressive issues back then (like healthcare) and partly because there was that ‘something I couldn’t put my finger on’ that inhibited trusting him.
It seems Bill Clinton’s shades of grey foreshadow the situation with healthcare reform. Looks like President Obama is backing away from the public option. (I’ll put something on the Open Thread if it hasn’t been discussed yet.)
Unlike Ripley in CT, I think that democracy is a messy, emotional business, that people have to bark out of turn to be heard.
But to function properly we need leaders with the compassion and the confidence to deal with the barking.
For Clinton his compassion and confidence in his perosnla life were his downfall. That’s the problem with being human.
We better get a lot less squeamish about such things if we are going to get this to work for us, our president and our country. I’m so glad Greytdog brought up the Parliament because I was going to.
Free speech is free speech – you don’t get to pick and choose who uses it. If it escalates beyond that, then we deal with that, too. Yelling gets the blood going, it’s a battle cry, it gets the adrenaline going, and it can be contagious to people around you who started out quiet. An excellent politician can handle it, welcomes it and knows how to deal with it. We need to learn that ourselves, or go quietly into the wilderness and give up.
Remember all the names and associations which Rs have attributed to Dems / progressives – bleeding hearts, weak, thinkers and not doers. Part of that is true – there needs to be a whole lot more “doing” going on and a lot less feeling sorry for ourselves or our president who is getting harassed and pushed. He can’t do it if we aren’t right there behind him, pushing back.
Clinton had an extremely hostile and dishonest group of opposition in Congress and it’s amazing he accomplished what he did. They threw the full force of nastiness at him, and they are trying it with our President now. They can be a nasty group, just like the Gollum we had as gov. Accept it, deal with it, stand firm, cry in private and fight back!
“Turner said, “The tree of liberty must be replenished from time to time with the blood of tyrants and patriots.” He added his own words: “It is time to replenish the tree!” ”
Ah, yes. He did.
“Last week, a pistol-carrying protester outside an Obama town hall meeting in New Hampshire carried a sign that said, “It is time to water the tree of liberty.” ”
Turner crossed the line when he gave out the judges pictures, maps to their places of work and identified security measures in the area. That crosses the line from political free speech to solicitation of murder.
RubberRoom #40
I personally very much blame the GWB machine for stealing an election from Al Gore.
There’s a funny Family Guy episode portraying what a different world it would be if Al Gore had been the POTUS.
http://www.crippledchimp.com/Family-Guy-Its-a-Perfect-World-With-Al-Gore-As-President
And i totally agree with you that today’s atmosphere (pardon the pun) is hopeful!
I think this also goes to illustrate why we need to be patient and trust Barack Obama. Because we don’t know everything that’s going on behind the scenes influencing his decisions. Maybe 20 years from now when he’s addressing Netroots and a heckler asks him a question, he’ll have an equally informed and thoughtful answer.
“I felt like I was there with you during Bill Clinton’s address.”
Boy, me too. Great writing, AKM. And isn’t it nice to hear someone speak off-the-cuff in complete sentences that are coherently linked together? It’s so frustrating to disagree with someone’s stance AND to feel, because of the way they can’t explain themselves clearly, that it’s not even THEIR stance but they’re just being manipulated by others? I feel that every time I hear people stammer their way through specious “arguments” in this health care debate.
As others have noted, what a great reminder for all of us that we have a responsibility to express our viewpoints to Congress.
I felt like I was there with you during Bill Clinton’s address. Great writing.
Bill Clinton not only has charisma, but is very intelligent and can handle hecklers. Oh, how I wish we could have kept him in office instead of Bushie!
Palin is nowhere in that league and never will be. She’s just a screeching lunatic. We all need to ignore her and banish her to the back forty of Alaska and give all of our support to President Obama to help make a better America.
AKM, thanks for a great report, how very exciting for you.
I am always amazed buy the fact that the President gets the blame for everything that happens.
I watched the Republicans waist so much time money and energy trying there hardest to take Bill Clinton down.
Yes he made some very foolish personal mistakes. That were pretty much his and wife’s business, but Americans ended up spending 40 million dollars with the help of that thug Ken Starr, on a investigation and impeachment about a sexual relationship the president had. And for a year and a half nothing got done while a bunch of moral phonies pounded this down our throats. The MSM was as much to blame for it.
But most of all Americans were to blame, we did not turn off our TV’s or Radios or not buy or Papers when this was the only subject that seeemed to be covered.
Just like this stupid birther stuff what a ridiculous stupid smoke screen. As the right keeps looking for reasons to remove Americans attention from the real issues that we face.
Here is what I see as different now days.
We have AKM and many more dedicated people out there who are getting the truth out about what is happening.
Thanks AKM for the great job you do of telling it like it is.
AKM: As he started talking, the room began to shrink, and finally it began to feel like we were the only two in the room.
………………………………………………………………….
I have watched Bill Clinton do this over and over again — the way he creates inclusiveness.
I particularly remember watching him on television at a Democratic fund raising dinner, where people had paid a great deal of money to be there. The wait staff stood around the periphery. Although many people in that room had much easier lives than others, in a very short time, he seemed to forge one cohesive listening group who “were all in it together.”
I find this fascinating and your description, AKM, captures beautifully the feeling of what I perceive to be happening.
Contrary to the hecklers at town halls Mr. Hudson actually wanted to hear what Bill Clinton had to say. That is I cannot agree with the tactic as such in the light of the town hall shoutings, but if we can believe that his reaction was entirely spontaneous and he was a “lone heckler” too, which takes a lot more nerve, then we can give him some credit for allowing Bill Clinton to clarify A LOT! (we´ll forgive him just this time ;-). Next time submit a question!)
UK Lady said: I would love to see $P stand up to the sort of grilling our Prime Minister gets every week. That would be hilarious.
Wouldn’t that be a sight to see! Giggles for a month…..
I agree with #22 that
We need to stand firm in our support and beliefs, make our voices heard, and educate ourselves about the process of change and how best to facilitate it.
Although Lane was disrespectful to frm Pres Clinton, Clinton turned it around and made it positive. Fighting to stop discrimination isn’t easy, and I applaud Pres Clinton for at least trying.
anastasiap
And didn’t the FCC under Powell (R-Colin’s son) the one to confirm that provision? I remember at the time that I thought I could smell the money changing hands on that one.
AKM discovers in 2009 that Clinton is brilliant Interesting.
If you read Bill Clintons autobiography you can tell he even from a young age sought to be around people who were very smart and very successful. I think some of the credit must go to Hillary, you better be prepared if you are going to discuss a subject with her.
Bill also learned from Jimmy Carter you can not just dictate to Congress, especially if the other party is in the majority. You end up with nothing.
Yes, Bill Clinton is one smart cookie. I’m glad to see that he is now on the same page as the rest of us. A good American who is trying to put this country on the right track….we’ll need all the help we can get.
You have to give President Obama a huge amount of credit for hitching the Clinton “Dream Team” to his administration. Hillary is absolutely brilliant as Secretary of State and Bill has positioned himself as almost immune to Republican brick bats. I couldn’t figure out how and why he got together with Poppy Bush after the Tsunami and Katrina, but now I get it. Talk about a lethal weapon!
As much as I disagree with Lane Hudson interrupting what was supposed to be a keynote address, NOT a discussion, I think Clinton’s answer relates closely to what President Obama is dealing with right now with health care reform.
Clinton ended up with a policy that was not what he wanted, but was better than the possible alternative. He accepted it in order to move forward, with the hope that we could make even more progress in the future.
We are now facing perhaps the biggest change in health care policy since the intoduction of Medicare, and change is always frightening. While this administration may WANT to make a radical overhaul of the system, I think PO and the Dems in Congress understand that SOME progress is better than total defeat.
We all need to show our legislators that we support reform and, in a respectful and thoughtful way, join together to drown out the screamers who are determined to make Obama fail, regardless of how it will hurt the American people.
Not sure where to post this right now?
http://www.politico.com/blogs/politicolive/0809/Dick_Armey_calls_Medicare_tyranny.html#comments
August 16, 2009
Categories: Health care
Dick Armey calls Medicare “tyranny”
While seniors across the country are worried about cuts to Medicare under health care reform, Dick Armey thinks that the popular program is “tyranny.”
The former House Majority leader and current chairman of conservative group Freedom Works, Armey characterized Medicare as such on “Meet the Press” because seniors are forced to participate.
“Why do they not let people who don’t want to be in, out?” Armey asked, highlighting the cost of the program to the federal government.
“This is important… The anti-healthcare reform lobby thinks that Medicare is tyranny,” said an incredulous Rachel Maddow, who was seated next to Armey on the panel
“”
Sending Bill Clinton to North Korea was a brilliant move. What other man could land in a foreign country and, within minutes, pick up two good looking women at the same time.
We need to remember that the president is just one man. If we really want change we need to remember what Obama has told us all along — it comes from the ground up. We need to be more organized and more involved. I admit that after the election I just wanted to relax, but I’ve recognized in the last week that I need to roll up my sleeves and get involved if health care reform is to have any chance at all. This past week I visited my congressman’s office, this coming week I’ll be making phone calls at a phone bank and possibly handing out literature at a farmers market.
Nice write up AKM-
Clinton definitely has “that” charisma going for him. I truly admire him.
Mr. Bea and I often lament that we’d have a MUCH better country if we had a weekly “President’s Question Time” a la Great Britain. I think Obama would do well in such a forum. And maybe, just maybe, Bush wouldn’t have gotten a second term– as I am sure he would have collapsed like a house of cards under such interrogation.
Clinton rightly points out that we MUST be strong in our support of Obama now. He’s less than year into what we hope will be eight years so, even if we don’t agree with him all the time right now, we need to put him in a position of absolute strength so he can push back with authority against the GOP disruption machine.
Look at what a few nasty corporate puppet masters have been able to do with the health care debate. We’ve gone from reports about a HUGE majority that wants reform to nightly coverage of wingnut racist teabaggers and birthers who add nothing to the actual debate. But they ARE having an influence on the weak-minded and THAT’S the danger (see GWB second term.)
I am really bothered by the tendency of Democrats to blame their guy at the top for everything they don’t like that Republicans were instrumental in because somehow, by some miracle, he didn’t stop it. I think you have fallen prey a little bit in holding the Telecom Act of 1996 against Clinton — I presume you are referring to the provision that has had the most profound public impact, the consolidation of media outlets, especially radio. In fact, this bill was enormous and that was a middle-of-the-night, last-minute provision thrown in by Republicans in congress, and no one knew that it would play out with such disastrous repercussions. It wasn’t Clinton’s idea, and he didn’t push for it.
I’m seeing the same thing here in Ohio right now. i talked to someone yesterday “disappointed” that Gov. Strickland “didn’t do all the things he promised during his campaign.” Well, let me see: for the first two years, he had a hostile Republican-majority in the legislature, veto-proof in the Senate. He still managed to do some delicate negotiation and enact a balanced budget and get the legislature to finally start talking about some serious issues. He vetoed and derailed a lame-duck elections bill intended to supress votes, that the lege tried to rush through before Democrats took over the House seven months ago. In those seven months, we’ve finally been discussing REAL issues in the House. Meanwhile, we got slammed by the economy much worse than most states, making the paradise that some people expected the Governor to produce impossible. I see him blamed for cuts no one likes, without getting that we don’t have the money, and the legislature had an equal hand in deciding what to cut.
We need to be careful about this. Our president and our governors aren’t dictators, and when they are facing hostile Republicans who only want to make them look bad in order to gain an edge in the next election, it limits their options.
I’m with you, Ripley.
I’m also a bit disappointed that the Alaska contingent never got to meet Pres Clinton – even though he makes you forget your name and where you live, which could have been a problem for them. 🙂
I am not convinced that having that man stand up and begin to yell at a former President was productive. When it happened, I felt instantly appalled. Especially in light of all the heckling, threats and and misinformation being promulgated across the country by the wing-nuts. I’m sure you and all the others had a question for the President that you wished to have answered, too, but you have the common courtesy not to be selfish. Sure, the President answered because he’s astute, passionate himself, and intelligent. Did anyone in that room really think that Mr. Clinton would have any other answer? I didn’t. I always felt he had been compromised. He was forced into a poor policy that got his name attached to it. So why then was it prudent that this man yell out? What was his agenda? He apparently decided that his agenda was more important than the President’s.
I guess in the long run the answer was given that people wanted to hear. But the way it happened does not settle well with me.
Thank you for your Boots-on-the-Ground report AKM. Your perspective is always clearly put across. I, too, like black and white. But I do understand the need for gray. For me, not this time. Perhaps next time, they should plan ahead and have questions submitted beforehand that could be addressed off the cuff. I dunno…. just not what happened.
I agree totally with those who make the comparison to the support Obama needs from us right now.
Presidents are not supposed to be dictators. Every time a supposed “progressive” starts nattering on about how Obama hasn’t done anything, I ask them if they would prefer Obama ran the WH like Bush did. Perhaps they would like Obama to subvert the law so that their favored policies would be enacted immediately?
As progressives, I feel we stand for democratic, not authoritarian, leadership. This requires our input, support, and education on how the process works.
We see the same kind of rage over the Rove, et al criminal charges. I don’t want Obama or Holder using the DoJ as a weapon (or SP’s Dept of Law attack dogs). We need to stand firm in our support and beliefs, make our voices heard, and educate ourselves about the process of change and how best to facilitate it.
I’m so glad Clinton used that opportunity to discuss the frustrations of the office and point out the need for support from us. I recently read a great article, written by a Republican, which explained how Clinton was such a better POTUS than Bush economically. Basically saying Clinton had been a true fiscal conservative and that the teabaggers, et al should shut up because they stand for nothing:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-08-12/the-gops-misplaced-rage/full/
I am thrilled you had the opportunity to “experience” Bill Clinton. What you witnessed is what most Arkansans are intimately familar with; Bill Clinton off the cuff. It’s famously the main reason he’s late for everything. He has one of the most inquisitive minds I’ve ever run into and yes, he’s brilliant. At one rally during second campaign, my 6’3″ teenage son and I were standing within 5 feet of him while he spoke from an elevated podium. Later, my son told me he felt Bill was speaking directly to him. He makes eye contact, he points and speaks contemporaneously coming back to you time and again.
His explanation for what happened to DOMA and DADT is something few people ever hear. You received a mini-lesson in how DC works. Sure changes the perception, doesn’t it? Nothing’s up or down, it’s nuanced and a game of chess. The shout downs at town halls have reduced discourse from the explanation you all heard to sound bites. Wish I had been there 🙂
Waving at DrChill (o:
I didn’t feel Clinton was condoning ‘shout outs’, I think it would have been terrible if he would have ignored it so better that he took it head on. Obama did the same in Colorado.
Greytdog and UKLady – eek! I don’t want to see that. I easily dissolve into panic attacks (o:
Heads up – Meet the Press is on w/Maddow
UK Lady Says:
August 16th, 2009 at 4:18 AM
Greydog
LOL, you are quite right, Prime Minister’s question time on a Wednesday is commonly known a the ‘bear pit’ here. It can get extremely ferocious,
=================
I love watching it. Its like a workshop for actors practicing sneering putdowns.
“Will the right honorable @$$hole admit that he and his party are feasting on their own $#|+? ” — Okay that’s not a direct quote…
This reminds us of the diversity of opinion in the ‘progressive’ community.
I’m all for civil discourse and good manners, but I sensed a desperate pleading in Hudson’s voice, and although his interruption was upsetting, It wasn’t clear at first, if he intended to be disruptive.
Bill turned lemons into lemonade.
The lesson?
Change takes time, and sometimes comes in a series of short steps.
Neither the means nor the outcome are ideal.
The free exchange of ideas in a Democracy is a messy business.
Greydog
LOL, you are quite right, Prime Minister’s question time on a Wednesday is commonly known a the ‘bear pit’ here. It can get extremely ferocious, but is compulsary viewing. When there are particularly contentious events going on in the political agenda it can seem like a flipping madhouse.
I wish the dems would get behind the Pres more instead of criticising, what part of ‘this will take time’ did they not get? He seems to be having to fight everone, even his own people.
p.s. I would love to see $P stand up to the sort of grilling our Prime Minister gets every week. That would be hilarious.
As for condoning “such behavior”, you need to take a gander at the British Prime Minister’s (&his Cabinet memebrs) questionings – where members of the House of Commons toss out tough questions with pinpoint follow up, some will heckle and deride the PM – and it’s one hell of a show. The PM must answer the question, a member of his Cabinet may likewise offer a rebuttal, but the point is that the PM does not receive prepared/screened questions – and how he/she conducts herself under this intense questioning gives you an insight into the veracity of their convictions. In fact the more robust & witty the question, the PM usually has an equal rejoinder. Likewise the willingness and the rebuttal of the opposition gives you an insight into whether or not they have a true grasp on the issues directly affecting their constituents as well as the nation. I personally think the State of the Union address should be followed by a rip-roaring Q&A just like the Prime Minister faces. And remember, the British are considered much more polite than the colonists 🙂
Lane’s “open forum” was referring to NetRoots as a whole – open, progressive, inquisitive. And while it may have been rude to call out his question, apparently NetRoots didn’t find him threatening or abusive – otherwise he would have been removed. I think what Lane did more than getting Bill Clinton to address an ignored topic, was to demonstrate that any group of people can engage in group-think; the larger the number, the more insidious the group think. Lane basically brought everyone down to earth, and reminded us all that even progressives can turn into lemmings. Clinton is a brilliant speaker and masterful debater, but Lane also gave him the opportunity to discuss the behind-the-scenes machinations that occur when navigating a bill through the labyrinth of Congress. And perhaps more than anything, we must remember & actively thwart those who want to lose true healthcare reform in the same labyrinth that begat DADT.
I am becoming very frustrated by the level of uncivilized behavior going on with the wingnuts and we progressives do not need to imitate them.
Barbara Boxer was shouted at with protests both Friday and Saturday night at bookstores where she was doing a book signing for her newest novel.
Can we now start yelling at these freaks at while they are at their day jobs?
They appear to have no shame and think that they won’t be held accountable for their “noble civil disobedience.”
Can we start doing citizens arrests and demand that these crazies get charged with disturbing the peace?
Where have all the “Free Speech Zones” of the Bush era gone?
These freaks seem to think that they are the only ones that are allowed to speak freely.
I am glad President Clinton answered the question asked but it condones this behavior and it will just continue.
Should we expect these ” shout outs” to continue in the next session of congress and people yelling out during the State of the Union address?
Well written AKM. I have a much better understanding of what really happenned after reading this than the commentaries I heard on various news channels. Most were insulting, making fun of Bill Clinton for finger pointing, being defensive and refusing to take any responsibility for past mistakes. The point of the exchange was glossed over.
Thank you for giving us the whole story.
Very interesting and informative post.
One of the things true of Bill Clinton is that he’s an extroverted thinker – that is, he gets energy for what he’s saying from the interaction with others. Think of it as being able to pull energy from the space between him and his antagonist. This makes him a very fluid thinker on his feet. I doubt very many people every “win” an argument with him.
Barack Obama is just as brilliant, and his written speeches are intricate and subtle, but he seems to be an introverted thinker, and sometimes reacts slowly and clumsily when he’s in an argumentative exchange with others – think how long it took him to get his footing in the debates last year.
I love how Barack Obama thinks, but I sure do miss the old dog’s ability to think out loud.
I watched President Clinton’s speech on CSPAN and when Lane stood up and yelled out – my first thought was – OH NO! NOT US! I was outraged, but by the time Clinton finished his explanation, I was glad he asked the question. It might have been disrespectful, but I think the answers gave many of us a new perspective. I know it did me. He is brilliant and I was so glad to get the opportunity to watch.
Thanks AKM. I watched the audience closely trying to get a glimpse of you & Shannyn, & thought I did see you very briefly once. I was waving. Wasn’t Sen. Brad Miller (D) N. Carolina wonderful? I saw his speech too. We need more like him.
I think Lane was out of place, however…
I think Clinton’s response was masterful and provided an insight that I didn’t have before.
Thank You President Clinton
I just read Lane’s blog on HuffPo. I have to say that I think he was operating under a misunderstanding. He claims to “being held as a captive audience”. No, he wasn’t. He walked in and he could walk out. He also claims that he was attending an “open forum”. No, it was a keynote address, as he also conversely states.
Thank you so much for sharing this experience with is in such a thoughtful way. I especially think it is important to take note of the way a president is helped or hindered by the public and negotiations with Congress, something we should really take to heart in respect to the change we hope to see with the Obama administration. He can’t do any of it without us behind him, making it possible.
Am very glad Mr. Hudson got his questions asked. And even more glad that Mr. Clinton was not afraid to confront the reality of the questions and answers.
I just wish Clinton had been more forceful at the time; who knows what might have happened back then.
Same things goes for right now. I hope BO doesn’t knuckle under to powerful interests in Congress. He needs to stand up and gather the troops, and not listen to lobbyists/interest groups who want to keep the country running their way. Time has come for a change, and our President/Representatives need to stand up to the challenge!
I listened to the speech on CSPAN and thought this exchange enhanced the point Pres. Clinton was making. While we want Pres. Obama to move this country forward on progressive issues, right now health care taking the lead, he can’t do it without our continuing support. We have to turn up in large numbers, keep the pressure on, and keep the Dems in control of the House and Senate.
I’ve read on several sites that some commenters are complaining that they won’t vote in the next election out of anger over the lack of single payer or another matter. All that will do is prevent progressive action of any kind once the Democratic majority is weakened or lost. Pres. Obama could be left, like Pres. Clinton, trying to prevent worse case scenarios rather than moving the ball forward.
The question yelled from the audience offered the perfect opportunity to explain the limitation of presidential power, demonstrate the problems that could confront Pres. Obama in years 3 & 4 of his adminstration, and encourage us to step up our game and keeping working for our principles.
I put up a comment in Huff Post yesterday.
I won’t try to repeat it here but the jist is that he introduced the shade of the Brown Shirts into Network Nations celebration, the audience did not come to hear him, and he was OT.
My major objection to hecklers and noise makers is that they interfere both with the freedom of speach of the speaker, and with the implied reight for freedom to hear the speaker.
Thank you AKM.
I too was amazed by President Clinton’s of-the-cuff response and does change how I feel about those 2 decisions.
All of the speech (6 parts) are on uTube. Lane Hudson’s scream is on part 3.
Well worth going after and watching.
I saw a bit of Fox’s response also on uTube. I guess my brain is wired differently than theirs?
Beautifully written AKM!
Mr. Lane Hudson is correct in that a strictly captive audience with no Q&A or other means to influence the direction a speaker takes does not at all affect intelligent discourse of ideas. Instead, it’s the audience that is affected by the speaker. It’s very one-way.
I agree with AKM (and any others) that simply interrupting to yell a question at a speaker shows a level of disrespect to the audience, the speaker and/or the medium, and is (only slightly) comparable to what the health care reform opponents are doing (as it’s not a focused and determined strategy to stop all intelligent debate). It did get results though, and as noted in AKM’s post, Mr. Clinton seemed to be (by the end of the speech) somewhat happy that it happened.
I’m sure many people learned something of the often-missing “why” that goes behind a President’s choices. When it comes to these 2 policies, I know I did.